Marlene Cameron - Biz Coach - Curious woman - inspirational - Deep Concepts

introduction: 0:05

You're listening to fascinating with with Mark Laurie. And now, Mark Laurie.

Mark Laurie: 0:12

Well, hello, everyone, it's Mark Laurie here from fascinating women. Usually, as I mentioned before, I have gotten these wonderful women in front of my camera and taking these incredible soulful photographs that changed their lives. But now, I've discovered that I can talk to these different women who've got fascinating backstories I want to share with the world. And today we have Marlene Cameron, who's graced our recording booth. Hello, Marlene. Hi, Mark, how are you working out today, is it a nice day over there?

Marlene Cameron: 0:43

It's, it's, it's, it's good. We're having weather.

Mark Laurie: 0:48

That's a good way to kind of describe it, it's kind of a neat way to go. So we're gonna get right into it, what would be the most spontaneous thing that you've done in your life?

Marlene Cameron: 1:03

You know. I feel like since things that feel spontaneous, there was like a run up to it. They got my just in my this seem like, Oh, I'm going to do this now. But there might have been something that was sort of coming up before that. I know when I lived in New Orleans, I just got it into my mind to, to go back to school and do my MBA and and I just happened to, you know, make that phone call. And the registration was closing the next day and I got it in there and made that happen. Another time, I had planned to walk the Camino de Santiago across Spain and, and I had planned to go but a few weeks before I fell in, they re injured my knee I fall on the ice and really bashed it if I went to before and I literally was hobbling around and could hardly walk and I thought, am I still gonna get on that plane and fly to Spain? And so I did doesn't even make sense.

Mark Laurie: 2:06

I just, I'm gonna do this as well, there's a term that I have never heard someone before the wrapping up to something spontaneous. And that's because when we say spontaneous, we usually think of Oh, out of the blue, I'm gonna do this. But the thought occurred to me that you're suggesting that we actually mentally prepare ourselves maybe not realizing for spontaneous moment, would that be an insight.

Marlene Cameron: 2:33

Well, I'll back up a little bit to my spontaneous decision to to apply for my MBA was i i wanted to do a Master's of architecture. And the dean at the University just didn't seem all that keen on having somebody with an interior design background. It's like, it's like, I know too much about the interiors, and not so much concerned about the, above the building envelope and, and so I went to a program, it's called MBA for a day, and you just go in, and they take you through some exercises around, you know, looking at different business challenges. And I thought, hey, this is kind of fun. So it was a number of years later, I, I had been living in the United States and, and worked out regularly at a fitness club, and they said, Hey, would you like to learn to teach aerobics? Because you seem really keen on this, and you're very, you know, musical and got good rhythm. So I said, Yeah, I'd love to learn and and so I was teaching aerobics, kind of illegally. And somebody reported me to immigration. So then I was arrested.

Mark Laurie: 3:39

So what country you're in when you're doing this?

Unknown: 3:42

This was in the United States. Okay. Yeah. So that was arrested, and taken downtown and fingerprinted and photographed and everything.

Mark Laurie: 3:52

Undesirable!

Marlene Cameron: 3:55

And I but my, my former husband was working in United States I said, Oh, this can't be good, I'm gonna have to figure out how they kind of get my own visa because the company he was working with was not too impressed. So I thought, Oh, I'll become a full time student. And that was the you know, that was the you know, the the run up to the spontaneous decision to go full time.

Mark Laurie: 4:17

I kind of like that. But going, going back to the bigger picture for the average person though, do you think that you can be conditioned for a spontaneous moment that that your subconscious has been given clues or signals so that when this moment comes along, you decide to seize it?

Unknown: 4:34

I do Mark of it. To me, it occurs something slightly different. Like I believe that there's there's a wisdom if you will, or you know, intelligence behind life, and some of the times we might get the nudge to do something that to us doesn't make sense like to my personal intellect with this doesn't even begin to make sense. But there's enough insperation or enough of a nudge behind it? We'll, we'll take that step anyway, even though it's like, what am I doing? So I think we do that actually more often than we than we realize. Because in the moment it does that, oh, I don't know about this. And it's like, no, this feels right to do this. And, you know, we go ahead with it.

Mark Laurie: 5:19

Yea there's, I don't think enough people pay attention to I guess they call it their gut, their intuition, little voice, where it says you should do this, you should go and talk to that person. You should take this risk. My feeling is the god or this little voice of yours is coming from a much deeper place of experiences and awareness. And you often get in its way. So it is trying to, you know, like, nudge you along. And and sometimes that's why you get deja vu i My belief is, is that you, you have done this thing several times, you've been down this path several times, but you have not paid attention. And soon, you should. And and that sort of as a viewpoint, I guess I hope that makes sense to you.

Unknown: 6:01

Yeah, I think there's there's two aspects, if you will, to intuition. One of them might be what we call sort of embodied intelligence, like you say, we've done something. And I think the term for this unconscious competence, like, you know, we don't know that we know until we need to know it. And so there's that aspect of intuition. But there's another aspect of something that comes from beyond our intellect beyond our experience beyond our education or what have you. And it's like, it's like that, that direct direct knowing you call it noetic. Knowing it's like, you suddenly know something that you didn't, you had no knowledge of, right.

Mark Laurie: 6:43

And that's a real term. noetic noetic? Yes, yes. I did not know that.

Marlene Cameron: 6:47

That's, yeah. Yeah, it comes fully from outside of our, of our personal intellect or personal psychology, and then, you know, because there's this bigger body of wisdom, you know, that kind of runs the universe.

Mark Laurie: 7:05

And so this, when this happens, you're kind of plugged into the larger body of information.

Marlene Cameron: 7:12

Yeah, it's like we call it, you know, the light bulb moment or aha moments, you know, when when I'm saying came upon his, you know, theory relativity, you know, when, you know, people that have had these, these revelations that, you know, the Wright Brothers figured out what if we did this, maybe we get this crate off the ground, and, you know, get the fly a little bit. It because it's not in our direct person, even though often these people are very well informed, and well educated people. It's like that next step, sort of beyond their, you know, their comprehension.

Mark Laurie: 7:50

So this is kind of like a, I guess, realized inspiration that you this person comes in, do you think people can be conditioned to have more inspirations than not?

Marlene Cameron: 8:02

I wouldn't call it conditioning, I would, I would call it creating an environment. So there's a kind of a cute story. And who knows if the stories are true or not, at that time, I had a son who was an amazing inventor, very creative man, went out fishing every day, with no intention to catch any fish, he didn't put any bait on his hook or anything. He just wanted to be in what we call that meditative state. So he wasn't meditating. But he's quieting down his mind. And I think when we have this, this, you know, so much intellectual thinking, analyzing, you know, that there's more, there's more of an opening for these insights to emerge.

Mark Laurie: 8:46

It's John Kehoe, it was one of my teachers, I guess. And he had the theory that sometimes the brain has to become focused and empty, for the inspiration to come arriving into it. And there's a story of a guy that, and I can't remember his name, but he was quite a famous individual. And he would go into a dark room with a table and a light bulb, and a switch on the table. And he just sat there until it occurred. And then he had hid it. And he got this idea of this room from from the light bulb idea, and he made it real. So you go in this dark room and you forgot the light bulb, you press the button and write it down and go back to darkness again, which I thought was brilliant realization of the light bulb concept.

Unknown: 9:24

I differentiate between mind and brain to me mind is the invisible intelligent energy, you know, and brain is like, kind of like the transmitter, if you will, right. And so it's true. It's like if we can kind of get that, you know, dial down a little bit that we're more receptive in, though people do all kinds of things to have I call this sort of meditative state, you know, they they knit they do Petit point, I heard this one corporate advisor actually would go around and interview in a lot of the people in the organization, and then go back to his hotel room and do Petit Point because it was like, you know, when he kind of quieted down all the thinking about the challenges or whatever. It's like this, these new, fresh, innovative ideas will emerge.

Mark Laurie: 10:10

Kinda broke a moment. Yeah, it's, in today's world, the concept I think of being quiet. And making your mind become a bit focused or unfocused, but not distracted, is actually worked against the smartphones and all these other things that kind of happen yours. You want to have multiple inputs to be connected with the world when in fact you need this. This nothing.

Marlene Cameron: 10:37

cast yeah, there's this this, you know, this tendency for almost like overstimulation, too much thinking too much distraction. And I think, you know, it's interesting. Just now that we mentioned this, like, have a bit of a theory around that why people do feel unsettled, where they do feel there's a tendency to feel anxious, or even a little depressed or disconnected. Is because the, you know, when, when we're connected to that deeper part of ourselves, we feel connected to everything. Yes. So if we're being pulled away from that, that some inevitably, is, is counterproductive, if you will.

Mark Laurie: 11:19

Yep. That's a bit of distracting. Kitty is been a bit of a pain here. I got a household pet that used to walk across my desk at will. What personality trait are you most proud of?

Unknown: 11:34

personality trait? The feedback I get from my clients quite a bit as is my, my intuition. And I think that comes from having been coaching for 20 years almost and, and you know, when you're really present with another individual, we just because it's the presence that, you know, a bit of a quieting down their mind that this this insights or these great questions to ask them, or this Have you thought of this type of thing emerge? And so we call it insight, but I think it's just a natural progression from being really present to another individual, and really hearing them deeply.

Mark Laurie: 12:20

So when you use that, are you like, present with intent, like you can be in the moment? But I think sometimes you have to go a bit deeper, you have to be there like, okay, so I'm here, I'm present, I'm listening. But I'm listening with a purpose to solve, be aware, engaged? Is that part of it for you?

Unknown: 12:39

No, that's a great question. Because I think when anybody starts out in terms of, you know, the field of coaching or counseling, we are, we're kind of evaluating the other person's, you know, the conversation and you know, where can I jump in and say something helpful, or, you know, what information can I impart of them. But what I found over time is the more that my own thinking, evaluating, assessing is sort of moved out of the way, the more deeply I hear that person.

Mark Laurie: 13:14

I can get that I teach photography and mentor them and so on. And, of course, my day to day thing I'm working with with women and taking them through the empowerment process. When we get the same things, I have to find out what's really what's under the layers. Yeah, exactly. Question is, so on the flip side, what personal trait do you wish you had that become it would be a really powerful tool if you had access to it?

Marlene Cameron: 13:41

You know, it's kind of a it's kind of like the paradox because, you know, I talked to, you know, I coach, often women in business and women leaders about this idea of being, you know, assertive and, and being confident and kind of, you know, being visible. And that's the thing that I'm challenged around. So maybe that is actually how it works.

Mark Laurie: 14:11

Is that Is that a real trait you're missing? Or is a trait that you've got that you don't fully appreciate? You got like one of those. That's the phrase, it's popular now. It's the fake the fake thing where you actually have got that?

Marlene Cameron: 14:27

Oh, yeah. Imposter syndrome. impostor syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like I could write the book on that. Because I, you know, I, I, you know, I've had a number of successful careers and have been very accomplished and, and just felt really insecure and inadequate and like, I'm just fake and worst of all, I'm going to be found out like this. People are going to absolutely know that. They pulled the wool over their eyes and, and so that created a lot of a lot of angst and almost kind of like a little bit Have a shyness like, Yeah, I'm kind of afraid to kind of put myself out there fully, because then they really will see who I am. So yeah, I think that for me, it's been a journey to, to see how I was evaluating myself within anything.

Mark Laurie: 15:16

Could there be from, like, we've got a society thing that goes way back to that says, you know, don't draw attention yourself, don't stand out. All those types of things. Does that your mind contribute to the imposter syndrome is that we've got this conflict over here that says, Don't be a standout, don't brag about yourself, then over here. It's, you're really good. You should be honest about that. Yeah, is that a society thing we're struggling with?

Unknown: 15:43

I think there's, I think there's a number of contributing factors for people to be because what impostor syndrome is, essentially is that is an individual's inability to kind of internalize, you know, their accomplishments, their success, their capabilities, and they often attributed to things outside of themselves, like, I was just lucky, or somebody liked me, or was a fluke, or was like a complete mistake, right. And so when we don't know, where the source of our success comes from, it's a bit of trying to negotiate the world, you know, because it can come and go, like, for me, from my experience, like some days, I felt really confident and self assured. And then the next day, I would just, you know, just go into this insecurity. And not understanding where that came from, is very confusing, and, and very unsettling, actually, because I it's almost like a contrast myself with a friend go out there and, you know, start having a conversation, like, just kind of like, you know, low enter. Yeah, I show up and all my insecurity and everyone's going to know it. Yeah,

Mark Laurie: 16:48

Are still stuck with that? Or are you kind of like, used tools, you're beyond it. Now.

Marlene Cameron: 16:53

I didn't use I mean, I did use some tools, which help. But what really was the missing link for me was really understanding how my mind works and how, because we're experienced in our thinking moment to moment, if I'm saying things to myself, like, we know, your, you know, other people are better than you or know more than you. I actually experienced that, you know, through my feelings and emotions. And so it feels real, it feels true. And, and when I started understanding that, I'm just thinking random thoughts, which most of them are kind of bullshit. I could start to kind of just let them go by right, we have 10s of 1000s of thoughts every day, and there's no way we can control our thoughts. So we're always on this kind of this, this emotional roller coaster, if you will, in terms of what you know, what thoughts were entertaining, your thoughts are buying into or identifying with. And when I realized that that's kind of how things work. I could kind of pull back and go, Oh, that's interesting. I'm having that thought today, but you know, it's move, just move through

Mark Laurie: 18:00

Well. Yeah. Just because the thought pops in your head doesn't mean you have to dwell on it. Exactly. And you can let it go. That makes a big difference. Yeah, you've had it several careers, I guess. Yeah, one point in interior design. Now, shifting careers is can be traumatic. I mean, you know, all this stuff over here, and you've been trained out, you've invested in it. And then you're gonna go over here and kind of start from scratch again, to how many career changes have you had? And how did you get comfortable or, you know, move into the next one.

Marlene Cameron: 18:37

I didn't find it uncomfortable to tie the truth. What drove me was my curiosity and my love, I love to learn in on PBS to tease me like, how did you move from interior design to find that? So I would say, Well, you know, because like the big commercial project, so there's all the blueprints and drawings and all that. So, you know, if you look at the blueprint, you know, there's a lot of information in that blueprint, like, you know, how the company is structured and how people work together. I said, I said, the financial statements kind of says the same thing. It's just a vehicle for information about the organization. And so I didn't see it as a stretch, if you will,

Mark Laurie: 19:19

I can appreciate that. I've gone from recreation director to realtor to my photography, that's for 40 plus years now. And I was the same way if you if I looked at it carefully, I discovered there was a thread which was listening to women and meeting their needs, and helping them along. And that became my thread even though the industries were very, very diverse. Right, going way back into your childhood. Do you think there's something happened back then, or a viewpoint that sets you up for that comfortable viewpoint? Transition?

Unknown: 19:47

Oh, ah, I don't know. That's, well, my father changed his careers. When we were growing up. I guess I'm really the I'm really the only one in my family that's done these multiple career changes, most of my siblings are, you know, set into a professional career and kind of hung in there. I don't know, it's just, I just, there just seemed to be an opportunity to learn something new and, and that was more appealing than, you know, staying in my comfort zone, if you will, and then knowing that I had them. And maybe that was one of the side effects of imposter syndrome is you don't really know that much. Anyway, you know why we go into a different profession

Mark Laurie: 20:35

that I can fail here I can fail there, it's all good.

Marlene Cameron: 20:38

Yeah, exactly. You know,

Mark Laurie: 20:42

what kind of things shaped you in your childhood? You meant your dad changed careers? What Yeah, embodiment happened in your childhood that started to give you a viewpoint to nurture the curiosity.

Marlene Cameron: 20:57

In some respects, I have to attribute it to my mother did high high ambitions for for her children and you know, we started music lessons when we were really, really young. I think I was like, maybe about six years old. And then Chris, we went into figure skating lessons. And so we're so education was always a big focus on our family. You know, we to do well in school to, you know, to participate in, in life in different ways. And yeah, so who knows, but, but my mum was, was a real eye color, a real Renaissance woman, she was very, very intelligent woman who lived in an era where, you know, once you got married, you couldn't work. But she had a really great job. Before she married and she, she was also a musician. She was a beautiful seamstress. We got the Vincentian Cyclopedia thing. She read the whole thing, you know, every book front to back, she was a master bridge player. She you know, even later on in life, she was reading three newspapers a day. So maybe she was maybe like, just that was modeled for me, you know, that interest?

Mark Laurie: 22:14

It sounds like I'm in for an outsider looking in what it sounds like is you got exposed to a heightened level of curiosity. And you could see the results of it because she became good at this and good at this. I'm good at that. And whereas most people like okay, here's my thing, and this is what I'm at, but you seem to have been a observational base for you. And

Marlene Cameron: 22:34

yeah, that's a that's a good insight. Thank you. Yeah. Well, children kind of learn about life from you know, their upbringing,

Mark Laurie: 22:42

you do and it's just it sounds to me, like, especially for the era that that all would have happened in seeing a woman who was making her own path. And, and doing this diverse stuff, I think it'd be very powerful on a young mind as you're assessing what's going to happen and kind of shape up from there. So now you're doing coaching. Okay, what was the revIelation to get into that?

Unknown: 23:13

I, my, my former husband I think I think he saw an ad in a newspaper in in the name of the program was before your divorce, take this course. And we thought, okay, we need this right. So we signed up things are kind of a little bit shaky. And one of the facilitators of the program was a was a coach so I hired her myself as as my own coach. And shortly after that had an opportunity to take a coaching program and I was you know, I was no were ready to coach I mean, I needed to do a lot of my own work and and you know, build my confidence backup, but for some reason I just stuck with it. As bad as I was to begin with, I just stuck with it. Yeah. And then I moved over into kind of a specialized area called energy psychology and became a master trainer and certified other therapists and coaches and in the technique and that was very gratifying because a lot of these techniques are very they work very quickly and you can see results really quickly so it's, it's it's gratifying for the practitioner and for the client, it's like yea. that

Mark Laurie: 24:35

We made that change

Unknown: 24:36

we shifted something here today. This feels cool. Yeah, yeah,

Mark Laurie: 24:39

some of the professions like some of these physicists and so on where they start a project and it's gonna be five lifetimes after they've dead before the thing comes. That's a that's a massive belief in what you're working on you this you know, the the small cog that's making a difference, but no one will know what it was until I thought like my photography, I think Yeah, he's a shot, they smile, it's great. That kicks into it. Do you have any heroes, people that you look up to and go, I want to emulate that.

Marlene Cameron: 25:14

I admire the qualities in in many people, whether they're politicians, or brilliant business people, or incredible artists and musicians, I think we can always identify strengths and values that we resonate with. But I'm also a big believer that, you know, being our best is just being who we are, naturally, if we really do believe that there's, the universe is intelligent, and has created this amazing earth and all of these interconnected, you know, different species and plants and animals and humans that, that there is, maybe there is a, you know, I'm part of that, you know, I'm part of that wisdom that intelligence and, and so I'm inspired to play my part,

Mark Laurie: 26:04

the evolution of where it's at. Do you have any quotes that drive you that you turn to

Marlene Cameron: 26:12

I really like a Wayne, one of the Wayne Dyer quotes, it says, when you trust yourself, you trust the very wisdom that created you.

Mark Laurie: 26:21

Oh, I like that one is really good. He was a fountain of interesting quotes. As to who I was, he was, he was quite amazing that we know early on off camera, who you're talking about a gentleman fit compared to the phrase was not altered reality, but just recap a little bit if you could,

Marlene Cameron: 26:38

yeah, it was the the area of moving in to now with my coaching is, I was discovered by a Canadian man. Really nice 1970s He had a, what we might call an awakening, or an epiphany or even an enlightenment experience. Like, we know, we know, this happened in ancient times, you know, with people who were became enlightened, but this happened in Canada affected seven days. And the fascinating thing about, about what he came to understand, after his experience was really the, the foundational nature of humanity, like we have this spiritual and psychological essence. And so the spiritual essence is the, the timeless, the soul, the, you know, the, you know, the part of us that's connected with this deeper wisdom. And then our psychology is kind of like our humaneness. Like, you know, getting into our thinking and having these emotional experiences and, you know, kind of, you know, doing battle with life and the kid just clearly see that all of that is, is, is generated from, from within our own psyche, and that we're perfectly set up and have the capacity to can handle things like we have this innate resilience, we have this innate mental health, we have this innate well being, you know, this capacity for this, you know, clarity and insight, until we get into this in our own personal thinking and kind of take ourselves, you know, it's a kind of use the metaphor of the hurricane, like, you know, you've got the clouds swirling around, you think about that's all our thoughts and thinking within the center of that is that calm, peace, clarity. And so it's a great metaphor for the human, spiritual psychological.

Mark Laurie: 28:27

Because very visual, you kind of get it, Yeah,

Marlene Cameron: 28:29

yeah. Yeah, and most people don't know that they have that calm center. They, they, they, they think they're kind of as we're seeing kind of, like, caught up in the, you know, the windstorm of life. Yeah, so, yeah, he, his life home, life changed dramatically. Of course, he went from being a welder to being a teacher and invited all over the world to speak at different universities and, and he was invited to speak to physicists, and because he clearly saw what he called these three principles was the foundation of all life, not just our psychological life, that there's this, this intelligent energy behind life that we we experience our own personal reality through through our own thinking, and our capacity for consciousness. So essentially, our capacity to experience life, you know, our feelings or emotions or five senses. So between the kind of that triad, if you will, it's really the foundation of all human experience. Yeah.

Mark Laurie: 29:42

I've always been of the theory that we have five senses. And then this has been this documentation. The guy says, No, you've actually got some like 38 or 48 census. And he says, there's the ones that the popular, mythmakers or populace will say we've got five senses because five is like a popular number of pieces. got like 48 senses that are all critical to how we navigate through the world and have them all listed, I should go and dig up and get a bit deeper, as amazing when we got that those makes perfect sense because, ya know, and it started to the time give me a sense of actually how I guess web light perhaps is the word we are to how we are connected to the, to our world, both internal and external, all these senses that we can navigate through, I thought was, was really tiny. What three beliefs guide you? What's your Cornerstone beliefs?

Marlene Cameron: 30:34

Well, you know, since coming to this understanding, I really learned to appreciate and this idea that I'm, I'm guided by intelligence. And, and I'm looking to that more and more to be, you know, what should I do next, officially, I call next. So what would be, you know, it actually is working really well. And they because of that, they feel much calmer. It's like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to know what to do in the moment. And even if it's something I'm not familiar with, so that's one. The second thing I live by is that, that everybody is connected to this intelligence, everybody has this deeper wisdom, it doesn't matter if you're one year old, or 100 years old, right? We're all connected to this. And so looking to other human beings and seeing, seeing their genius, have seen their wisdom has seen their intelligence, it's very, it's very encouraging, because, you know, then I don't have to try to compare myself. Because when I certainly am liking the postures, like, Oh, my God, they're better than me. Right? They know more that you know. So that's been a big relief. And also the understanding is that we, we really do experience the world, in our own in our own personal reality. So it just goes without saying that you and I are not going to experience the same thing the same way. Right? It's just, and so when people say I don't feel understood, or, you know, they didn't get me it's like, yeah, that's how it works.

Mark Laurie: 32:09

In some reality welcome,

Marlene Cameron: 32:12

yeah. You know, we're in a traffic jam, and you're fine. And I'm freaking out, right? Exactly the same situation, and we're having a completely different experience of it. So it's really about just being more curious about what does that person experience? What are they seeing? And that's to me, which creates the connection, just getting really curious about some of the answers of life.

Mark Laurie: 32:38

Maybe like that, that is so those are three unique ones. Normally people all family, but I like electric cars don't like going back to the second one. I had a question on that. Well, it's actually like a pop back on my brain. I hate that when things disappear. So what are you curious about right now? Where's your curiosity taking you today?

Marlene Cameron: 32:59

Well, how to be more grounded in this understanding. So I'm coming from a place of, of being really authentic with it, it's not just a great idea. Like it's, you know, I've kind of embodied it and, and, and live it, and how I can support other people in in learning this understanding because I can see so many people confused and suffering because they don't know they, they don't understand where their experience is coming from. And they're, they're trying to kind of manage life and and in also how because I worked for so many years in the area of people feeling very stressed out very anxious, very, it's like how it can help you know, people in the business world come to a place where they can have this this calm presence and really from that place to take on anything that comes along in their business or you know, in their industry. It's because we have this innate resilience we have this innate wisdom like we're set up to be successful.

Mark Laurie: 34:05

We are what what is your definition of success?

Marlene Cameron: 34:10

I think there's a it's, it's probably just coming to a place where you're in complete alignment with your own values. You know, doing work that you feel passionate about that you feel like you're fulfilling, you know, it's fulfilling you're, you're serving others and to me, that's what success is.

Mark Laurie: 34:37

Yeah. Do you think holding that? Definitely success? Do you think that people aren't looking deep enough when they say okay, success is much more of in the bank, how many vacations I have, where I vacation? Do you think that kind of gets in the way those are the obvious things that society pushes, I mean, like if you're if you have more money, you can buy more stuff. So there's a whole Madison Avenue has got an intent to shove you that way because the To get in the way,

Marlene Cameron: 35:01

well, that comes from what we call our conditioning. Right? So, so we're, we're subject to all kinds of ideas when we're growing up, but that doesn't, that doesn't end once we graduate. Because we have a very sophisticated, you know, marketing says, system in our, in our North American culture, that they figured out how to make us want stuff, right? And they really play on our insecurities. And you know, when you have this, she'll be happy when you have this, she'll be satisfied when you have this, she'll feel, you know, so we're buying into this, you know, we've been, and we've been subjected to this for many decades now, really, since after the Second World War, like, you know, this whole idea of creating a consumer culture to help grow the economy. And of course, it worked right, you know, amazingly strong economies. And so we're, that's become part of our conditioning or brainwashing whatever you want to call it, that that's where true happiness lies in the acquisition of things or power or people or places. And in the, the irony is that, you know, if we really believe that, and we acquire the things that we think are going to bring us happiness, and that doesn't fulfill us, that will keep going and wanting more and more and more, right. So. Yeah, it's just we've just, you know, we've just bought into something that people are figuring out.

Mark Laurie: 36:28

But you if you start and I guess that's the first thing, I think that'd be the first thing if, if someone says, Okay, so if you get this promotion, if you this is the this is a success goal, and you hit it, and you feel empty, rather than trying to get more of the same person or pause and go, Well, that's not really successful, because I don't feel successful. Maybe I should look around, see what else I should alter my perspective to is that make sense?

Marlene Cameron: 36:53

Yeah, cuz a lot of these swear they call these intellectual goals, right? It's like, in my mind, this is what I need to be successful. But they're not necessarily aligned with that, that deeper, wiser part of ourselves and some people call it heart centered, some people call it you know, kind of more kind of that embodied presence but, but that's the power of our of our personal mind is like it can, you know, like, it can really have a heyday

Mark Laurie: 37:18

as a coach, because you're dealing with such intrisic levels of people where they're feeling and how they see things, you find walking through regular life, grocery shopping, some of the posts that kind of that you see, people go, Oh, my God, give me let me tell you five words, and it'll change your life just like this. Look at this viewpoint, you'll find that urge to, to help people be enlightened as you go through life and the continual basis, right, your clients are like, Oh, my God, your life would be so much better if you just pay attention. And then you tell that ever happened.

Marlene Cameron: 37:52

I don't do it in the grocery store. But, you know, if I'm, if I'm having a conversation with somebody, and they seem interested, it's like, yeah, we'd like to have a conversation about this. And maybe I can help you, you know, to see something differently or help you move past something that's, you know, holding you back, or it just take a very gentle approach. I'm not out there to, you know, conquer the world. And because I know that if I work with one person, and they get this, it's going to radiate, radiate out through all their relationships,

Mark Laurie: 38:27

They start to share it, it kind of grows it, there is a hair product. I told one person told the next person and it kind of goes on down. Is there something that you've changed your mind about recently, that you were thinking about this way, then you kind of something and then just took a shift and goes, Oh, that's not my thought at all. Now,

Marlene Cameron: 38:47

I think the biggest realization for me, because as a coach, I don't know, I can't speak for all coaches, but there seems to be a tendency for us to spend a lot of money on trying to figure out other people's success. You know, what systems do they use? What processes you know, how do they you know, all of that kind of stuff. And I've spent a lot of time and money on trying to learn somebody else's process and systems and their approaches. And when it didn't work for me, it's like, oh, must Something must be wrong with me. Right? But not appreciating that that's, that's unique to them. That's that's what works for them. And I think when we find what works for us, then that's the ticket.

Mark Laurie: 39:35

So that would have been a I guess, a turning point where you realize that figuring out what their systems were working to make your systems any better. But you had to find some for internalize that.

Marlene Cameron: 39:47

Yeah. And maybe it's not even having a system maybe it's it's being you know, showing up being present responding in the moment and being authentic, you know, like, that's become my new system. but not, you know, my my signature program and you know, the all the modules and steps, I'm going to take somebody through and, you know, it's like just Yeah. Being very, there's, there's, you've probably heard of the book, the trusted advisor, and you know, a couple of the aspects in the book, it just really speaks to one's capacity to show up with them the agenda and be completely present and curious and attuned with the other person. That's what, that's what, when people have the experience of credibility.

Mark Laurie: 40:34

That's a powerful thing. The no agenda part is really tricky. I think for because most people are, I guess that's a shortcut to things. And so having an agenda, even help someone out, like, I'll help you out and back to brain as well, this could be useful to ways and, and to just set that aside. And, and be present is a challenge. I think

Unknown: 40:56

one of the things I also came to appreciate about how people really make changes is, is I could say to somebody, I could give them four or five different suggestions. But the thing that's going to help them make a shift is when they have their own personal insight, like they see something, right. And it may not have anything to do with the five things I just shown them that may have been a catalyst or, you know, tweak something, but it always comes to our own personal insight, we see something for ourselves, and it's like, oh, that's, that's what I'm going to do. So I just appreciate that. That's how it works. And so I don't get too hung up on, on on my agenda, or my information or my teaching or you know

Mark Laurie: 41:44

about, can you six, I see this my photography? Can you see someone as they like they're here, and this is where they need to go. But they got to find themselves, right, and you start to see them. Like, like, they can just feel that there's something there and they're getting posed to wrap up and all sudden, they're right, you see that, that evolution and people like, say, a short conversation where they're, they're starting to grasp the idea that you're presenting, and then they they start then they get it?

Marlene Cameron: 42:11

Yeah, yeah, there could be like, like little mini insights, like little mini steps, right. But that's still coming from within them. And then there's like, maybe that bigger, bigger step or bigger leap, because because lots of people have, you know, experiences where they suddenly, you know, things just feel different occur to them differently. They see things differently. And so it's just in a when the Sidney banks who was the founder of this understanding said that, that, you know, everybody, right? levels of consciousness increase within sight with this endless levels, right.

Mark Laurie: 42:51

I found that I've got, I think I came across a phrase one time, there probably should have like five coaches in their lives, five different areas into it. And for a long time, I thought that he had a coach and they're really good. I discovered the coach, the coach that I was using, had coaches, and they had coaches. And then they would go through this evolution where they hit a point and they learned all the Customer Quotes and move up and discover the people I thought were at the top of the rank, they actually had coaches, and they talked about their coaches and their coaches I got it never ends, there's going to be a coach that's going to help you hit the next stage.

Marlene Cameron: 43:24

I think so because we all have what we call blind spots. And what we mean by blind spots is we've, we've taken some information, and it's become so integrated into our identity, that we just think that that's the way it is, right? So, so, so simple example would be like, Oh, I'm a shy person. It's like, okay, so you know, where did you come up with that idea? And, you know, what, if you didn't have that idea about yourself, and what would that look like? And if you go like, Oh, you mean I don't have to be a shy person. Because I've always thought as a shy person. But but you know, we carry these little descriptors of ourselves and the stories of ourselves, and we just take them well, that's, that's the truth. That's how it is. That's who I am. It's like,

Mark Laurie: 44:12

I found having I love these kind of conversations. And I had a, I find that there's things I've learned in the past that I just absorbed as never competent conversations is kind of there. But I never realized until somebody sort of flips open the carpet and says, Well, this is kind of messy under here. And you go, Oh, yeah, where the hell that came from. But that's, I've been conducting myself this way. But that's not really the way I see things. And then there's this dynamic shift that you suddenly look at and go, Oh, okay, I got it. But there's all these little hidden corners. I find that over there, you know, 66 years of living, have acquired without thinking your textbook covers from school. You know, different things, and I find it fascinating when you encounter especially start looking for them. Most people don't want to luck. But when you start looking for them go, Well, that doesn't align anymore.

Marlene Cameron: 45:05

Well, it is kind of a threat to the ego. Because, you know, our ego is formed by a bunch of collective ideas. So when you try to kind of peel an office chip away, it's no, no, no. So it's like, and I, there's a really great quotation somewhere, it said that, you know, we, the only way we really true thing really learned something new is that there's a little death of the ego, right? It's like this, that part allows that to fall away. So this new bigger, you know, idea can, can come into it. Yeah,

Mark Laurie: 45:37

I think that's what stops a lot of people from growing is that you, your ego takes a bit of a BD, there's one of my Frank phrases is, if you want to become good at something, yeah, first have to fail at it. And that's I fail a lot. It's like, try so much stuff. But I believe from what you're saying is, as he left that piece of the I hadn't quite heard that phrase, of course, I really enjoy, it has to die. And that's a terrifying thing. For a lot of people, it's something you've held on to for a long time. And you now we're gonna let it die, let it go. And you have to separate your belief and who you are from this thing, you're gonna let go at that. Because that's, that's a big part of the ego, that's gonna be let go.

Marlene Cameron: 46:17

But when people understand that there's this deeper dimension to themselves, and the ego is a construct, you know, it doesn't seem quite as daunting.

Mark Laurie: 46:27

It is. I think what happens is the first leap to do that is really hard. The next ones aren't quite as hard because you've made the leap and you're fine with it. But but you're I think that's, I think that's a big barrier for people to kind of climb over. But once you've done it, you're kind of good. This has been a really cool conversation. Thank you so much, Marlene, I've really enjoyed it.

Unknown: 46:45

Yeah, you're very welcome. Thank you.

Mark Laurie: 46:48

Now, down in the bio part, you have to discover Marlene's links to her coaching. She is as you've gathered quite an insightful person. So if you're inclined to grow, she is the person to help you do that. So all those links are down there plus a bit of bio. We're background that's not on our particular journey today. Any final things you'd like to share with us before you leave?

Marlene Cameron: 47:12

Oh, you know, if if people really understood who they were like, you know, what they're made of? I think they would go through life feeling much more you know, enjoying life and just being open to what comes up because we we do have this innate capacity to be very resilient and kind of, you know, weather all these kinds of different storms and, and just just enjoy the ride.

Mark Laurie: 47:43

Thank you so much. You've been listening to mark Laurie on fascinating women with Marlene Cameron. Glad you could join us. I look forward to my photography or if you're interested and see you next time. Thank you for coming.

Exit speaker: 47:55

This has been fascinating women with Mark Laurie. Join us on our website and subscribe at fascinating women does he a fascinating women has been sponsored by inner spirit photography of Calgary, Alberta and is produced in Calgary by Leigh Ellis and my office media.