introduction: 0:03

Mark, you're listening to fascinating women with Mark Laurie. And now, Mark Laurie,

Mark Laurie: 0:10

hello everyone. It's Mark Laurie here from fascinating women. Usually, as you know, I'm photographing these wonderful women in front of my camera in the studio, but every time they come across someone who got such incredible backstories and just got to get them out to you all. And today we have Katie Dooley, welcome Katie,

Katie Dooley: 0:27

thanks Mark for having me.

Mark Laurie: 0:30

It is a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Yeah, Katie's got some interesting tales. So we'll kind of start right away, Katie.

Katie Dooley: 0:38

Dive right in.

Mark Laurie: 0:41

Give us three big highlights of your past life.Oh, your early life.

Katie Dooley: 0:46

Early life. The first one that comes to mind is I competed at the North American Irish dance championships. That was in 20 oh, gosh, 2011 Yeah, I was 20. I was just shy of my 21st birthday, which doesn't feel like I was gonna say 2021 because I don't think I'm 34 but yeah, so 20 when I did that, that was a big highlight of my life, and then starting my business. I mean, you're an entrepreneur, too, Mark. So you know the beginning, I don't have a hard date for that, but it's been a journey, so that's been a huge accomplishment. And then, oh, I gotta say, my husband, because I love him very much, he supports I was also torn between travel. They've done a lot of traveling and a lot of soul traveling, so but my husband supported all all of those things I just listed, so I better mention him in there.

Mark Laurie: 1:47

Goodness, do right? So you've traveled a lot. Where's your some of your favorite places to go?

Katie Dooley: 1:52

I will. New York City is one of my favorite cities in the world. I've been there twice, and actually looking forward to going back. I don't have any hard plans, but I would like to go back in the near future. I've been to Ireland three times. If you can't tell from one of my big accomplishments,

Mark Laurie: 2:09

I've just been there once.

Unknown: 2:12

Where else? Guatemala was kind of a highlight. It was very different from my normal travel. We go to Europe a lot, and so to go to a developing country in Central America was a big chain, but a big culture shock. So that one was a highlight as well.

Mark Laurie: 2:26

What do you like about travel?

Katie Dooley: 2:29

Oh, so much. Food. Food's a big one, but I think to expand on that is the culture, right? Getting to learn about different people, and in learning about different people, you realize that we're not actually all that different. And I yeah, I like that. I like different cultures and histories and customs and different religions and different languages, and just seeing things you would never see here,

Mark Laurie: 3:03

I find when you travel a lot, the racism and the point of view start to get muted, like you be seeing people in the culture you understand where they come from. Do you find that?

Katie Dooley: 3:15

Yeah, and one thing, especially as a solo female traveler, you know, people always wonder about safety, right? And the thing I always come back with is, most people on the planet are just trying to get through their day, right? And whether that's in Guatemala or in London, England, or here in Canada, like most people, just want to make it through their day. And so you're, you know, obviously things can happen, but I think you're pretty safe, and you find a lot of kindness in strangers. And, yeah, people just want to help and then learn about you when they find out you're not from wherever you're traveling to there, they're excited that you're excited about their country.

Mark Laurie: 3:56

Yeah, I find when you express any kind of interest about their country, or what's kind of there, or why they do things, they just perk right up. Really, really want to share it and tell you that's kind of a bold thing. So you're traveling still mostly as the single woman. You still do your trips. Um,

Katie Dooley: 4:15

I not as much recently, because my husband has been joining me and he's he finally caught the travel bug, but I travel alone right up until my actually, my last New York trip, I was supposed to go solo, and then a girlfriend tagged along, and so I was 29 for that. So yeah, I've traveled solo predominantly, but yeah, my husband's getting into it too. So yeah,

Mark Laurie: 4:41

that's cool. Any tips for a single woman traveling?

Katie Dooley: 4:46

I think, I mean, there's so many things. It's just, I mean, being aware of your surroundings is really the biggest one I've actually, it's funny. I feel like I've gotten. More conservative in my traveling as I've gotten older, and now I'm like, Well, I don't like going out after dark by myself, but, you know, figure out what the safest method of transportation is. Depending on where you are in the world, taking a cab is totally fine. So go door to door. And I mean, sometimes in New York, you know, New York City, the subway is perfectly safe, so taking the subway door to door, I you know, don't ever be too flashy, blend in as much as you can. Speaking the local language helps a lot, too. I find locals are more willing to help if you at least attempt it in there,

Mark Laurie: 5:36

even if I even if they have to stop and say, really, it's okay. But I tried, right?

Katie Dooley: 5:42

I actually, we were in Portugal last year, and I got a couple compliments, people like, you sound really good. And I was like, thank you. Because, I mean, I did do a lingo for like, four months before we went like, nothing fancy, but I ordered coffee a few times, and one lady at a coffee shop, and she didn't speak great English, she was like, that was really good. That's very happy. So

Mark Laurie: 6:04

I had a phrase when I was in Italy, and I practiced and I practiced, and finally, my friend who's driving to stop, it's too much. It's too funny listening to you, but you'll never get right to see the law. Okay? I'll do that.

Katie Dooley: 6:20

Yeah, most people just want to help you once they know you're trying and you're there to appreciate it and not, you know, not exploit it. So

Mark Laurie: 6:31

what are the three beliefs you have that carry you through life? The three pillar beliefs?

Katie Dooley: 6:37

Oh, that's a good question mark. I mean, I mean, I definitely believe in hard work, and that, you know, if you work hard and work in any direction, the things you want in life will come to you. I guess with that, I'm very like contribution driven as well. Like I give back a lot. Givers. Game Mark, if what you put up in the world come back to right? What do you put out? We'll come back to you. So, yeah, I've been following. I was thinking about this the other day. I've been volunteering since I was like, 10 or 11 years old, and I still volunteer a lot, yeah, and I guess, like, the last thing is just be nice, and I also be nice, but also, I think people are inherently good, like everyone. I mean, it's just like, I, you know, people say that I thought if you could, like Katie, people just take advantage of you. And I don't think so. I think that I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I'm going to think you're a good person and a nice person and a friend until you prove me otherwise, whereas I met people that are the opposite, where, until you prove yourself, we're going to we're going to be strangers, and you only want what's bad for me, but I'm always good the opposite.

Mark Laurie: 7:59

What happens when a person proves you wrong that they actually are a bit of a scudsy character? I

Katie Dooley: 8:05

guess it depends on how. But I don't particularly like drama, so I'm just kind of happy to, you know, leave them this, leave the, you know, leave them ghost them. Sounds harsh, but yeah, I mean, I just don't stay in contact with them, or do business with them, or whatever. The thing is, I don't necessarily think we need to blow anything up into something huge. I mean, there's definitely been times in my life where our conversation has been required, but most often, people show their true colors, and you can just distance yourself from them.

Mark Laurie: 8:37

Yeah, aside, if you watch people what they do, rather than what they say, or the mismatch what they're doing, what they say, tells you if you should be cautious about what the person

Katie Dooley: 8:45

totally Yeah,

Mark Laurie: 8:47

what personality trait you most loved, that you enjoyed, the most be proud of. I

Katie Dooley: 8:53

always say my superpower is my curiosity, and I think a curious woman, yeah, I think that shows in my work and in my love of travel and in my love of people. So yeah, I'm always just like, I always want to know more.

Mark Laurie: 9:11

What's the most interesting thing your curiosity has led you to? Oh,

Katie Dooley: 9:15

oh, there's so much. Mark. The first thing that comes to mind is actually my podcast. I don't know if you know, I don't know if you know that I have a podcast. No, I didn't know that it's a hobby podcast. It doesn't have anything to do with my work or my job, but I guess I'll plug it now. It's called the Holy watermelon. Okay, so it's a religious studies podcast, and so I took religious studies for a year in university, and I loved it. My dad was always very interested in comparative religion, so even as a young kid, I was 11, when 911 happened, we were having conversations about religion. And so then I was really excited to take it in university. And then one of my good friends, he actually got his major, or he majored in religious studies. So we started a podcast during the pandemic, and I've learned so many weird and wonderful things, and met some really neat people, and I'm continuously surprised by what I learned. We just did an episode. I don't even know if it's launched yet. At the time of us recording this podcast, we just did one Taoism, so Chinese indigenous religion, and I learned a ton

Mark Laurie: 10:31

a curiosity I find keeps you both fresh and interested in the world, because there's so many I keep on chasing down rabbit holes. I live down rabbit holes.

Katie Dooley: 10:42

Yeah, you can never know everything, and I and that's exciting, isn't it? Yeah,

Mark Laurie: 10:47

Yean, obscure things. Who inspires you?

Katie Dooley: 10:52

Um, lots of people, I always say that my husband is my better half, or what people like make that joke on other half and better half, I always say, you know, he's my better half, for sure. He's just like, very down to earth, very hard working, very generous. And since I've met him, I've become a more generous person. And he inspires me, because he's so encouraging, and the things I do so that's he's a big inspiration over the years, my dance teacher, she actually, I don't know, she just had her 60th birthday, and I was sitting around and chatted with some ladies, and I said, you know, I don't have a great relationship with my mom. I don't mind saying that here, because she'll never listen to this, but I don't have a great relationship with my mom. So my dance teacher is actually one of the best female role models I've had in my entire life. And then in business, yeah, actually kind of along the same vein. I It's been nice meeting older women that are successful and seeing where I could be in 20 or 30 years.

Mark Laurie: 12:10

What made your dance teacher your best woman role model? What kind of things that you doesn't have? So

Katie Dooley: 12:17

she she was a single mom of six kids, which already is remarkable, and she started a business being an Irish dance teacher at a time when, like, I knew from a young age that I wanted to Irish dance. I was the Lord of the Dance, river dance generation, when those were huge. So I knew that I wanted to do it, but this was all pre internet, so it even took, like, my parents a long time to find an Irish dance school because they weren't in the yellow pages, and there was no internet to Google them. And so I just think it's remarkable to start a business at that time like I can. I mean, you've been in business for a long time. That might have been you, too. Mark, 45

Mark Laurie: 13:01

years. Yeah, there was actually my photography studio. Was they told me when I signed up, it was the second photography website at the time I

Katie Dooley: 13:11

yeah, I feel like everybody telling me that first met, yeah, we go back. So, yeah, running a business. She was homeschooling her kids as a single mom, and, like, making it all work, and then, just like she was so tough, but also so caring at the same time. And I think that whole atmosphere of sports in general is so good for any young person, but especially young girls, to know that. You know, this comes right back to the pillar of working hard, that if you don't work, you're not going to get it yes, in a world where you can't feel students anymore and you can't hold them back grades to, you know, work really hard and then not do well at an Irish dance competition is like, it's devastating, but it's also really eye opening, and you have to be really self reflective from a young age, and like that gets drilled into you, like if you and then something subjective, like our stance, even if you do work really hard, it's a guarantee too. It's not a points game like hockey, yeah, though, I mean, even the losing team works really hard. We all, we all watch the Oilers playoffs here, right?

Mark Laurie: 14:37

There's a bigger education when you lose than when you win. Winning is great, but I've learned that when you fail or you don't quite make it, there's a revelation of character. By not making it like what do you do when you lose? It's easy to win. There's easy to be a good person when you win. What are you when you lose? Yeah, I. So when, when you lose, what? What's your shift? What do you do? Um, kind of person are you when you lose?

Katie Dooley: 15:09

I My poor husband. I like to I'm a he doesn't need to do anything, but I need to talk it out right. There just needs to be so to receive the information. And I'll just like, think and talk it out, is sort of step one. And then, I mean, it depends on the failure. But like, over the years, I've changed my business processes and my contracts been rewritten and or I've tried new like, depending on what it is like, try a different approach, you know, trying to get into shape, or whatever it is, maybe running is not working. Maybe we got to do a weight training. Or, you know, what are the different possibilities? Yeah, and, and also being honest with yourself, you know, back to the dancers, did you work as hard as you could have, or did you work as effectively as you could have? Because you can put in the hours, but if you're practicing, my, my, I had one dance teacher who used to say, practice makes permanent. And so yeah, you can put in all the hours you want, but if you're doing it wrong, right, if you can, if you take bad photo after bad photo, after bad photo, you could take 10,000 photos, it still won't be good. Yeah, when

Mark Laurie: 16:23

I was growing up, it was perfect. Practice makes perfection. Like it's got a practice, but it's gotta be good. So we had all my instructors for anything, and I've always looked for the guy that's gonna do that. I'm not looking for an easy anything. So if I wanna learn something, we gotta have the guy that's got high standards.

Katie Dooley: 16:42

Yeah, yeah. And it makes sense, man, it can be hard to hear, you know, but that's you're exactly right, the person who's going to be honest with you, sometimes it's not what you want to hear, it's what you need to hear.

Mark Laurie: 16:58

What is something you failed at, feel big at. So some things, you just go, oh, my god, that was a tragic I can't going to the bottom of the ocean, failure. Oh,

Katie Dooley: 17:07

let me like having me root through all my embarrassing moments. You know, I actually a fairly recent one. I had a client. We do brand audits, and I think it was an outlier. I've had a business coach review it, but like I did this brand audit, it was, I don't know, 10 or 15 pages. And the idea behind my brand audits is that they have information to move forward with their branding. They know where they're at, what they need to do for next steps, and then a little bit beyond that as well. And I did this report, and they came back and they said they were really unhappy with it, because they knew everything that I had sort of outlined in it. And I was devastated, like, they're a lot of work. And I was like, I don't know it was tough, but so I had, it was a referral, so I had to go back to the person who referred me and say, like, hey, just so, you know, I want you to hear this from me, like they were really unhappy with it, you know, I went back to them and, you know, asked if there was anything I could do to make it better. They, actually, they never got back to me. So, yeah, that one was hard, because I'm sure, like you were both in creative fields sometimes, you know, when a project is like, not your best work, but like the clients, you know, it's satisfactory, but maybe you could have been all you know. And this one was hard, because it was kind of like the first one that was like, No, this was all wrong, and we're unhappy with it.

Mark Laurie: 18:51

I've been in that your employer's shoes at it. We hired a girl to give us some slogans. I've been around for a long time, and we've done a lot of slogan building. And she came back and she gave us five flow inches, really proud of and they're all ones we've used in the past. Like, each one of them are stuff I'd already had. Those are history stuff. It was really hard to go, like, Wait, you're supposed to be inventive. It kind of kicked over, yeah. Do you have any quotes that drive you along? Inspirational quotes

Katie Dooley: 19:23

I do. I actually have a pencil case, and I found it at chapters. It says, Life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Wow, yeah. And I had heard that quote years ago, and then I saw it on a pencil case, and I was like, I need this. So, yeah, everything you want is right outside that comfort zone.

Mark Laurie: 19:47

Comfort zones are interesting places, because I found see if it works with you too, that you make a drive to always spend more time just outside your comfort zone. And. Orange thing keeps on moving like you you go, Oh, this is uncomfortable. Oh, damn, it's comfortable. And you gotta, you keep it gets bigger and bigger, and you're so your risks and your as you get further out, it comes more and more uncomfortable as you try to stay out. And that's really hard, and it's a bit abusive to your personality at times, because out of your comfort zones where all the the accidents happen, like that's why you're learning, right? Your Comfort Zone is when you're learning. I

Katie Dooley: 20:27

find that it's been really cyclical for me, and it's something that, especially in business, that I've become more aware of now, and it's, it's when I get uncomfortable with the comfort zone that I know it's time to grow again. So I'll like, push, push, push. And they'll be like, sweet, this is great. I love this. And then I'll kind of go, oh, this is not where I want to be. And then I go, okay, okay. That means it's time to push again. Yeah? And so, yeah, always uncomfortable, but I have kind of gotten used to this, like the universe will tell me when it's time to push again, right? And that seems to work so far for me.

Mark Laurie: 21:16

That is good. Do you find as you get older that your risk, you don't take quite as big risks, twice as big swings as you used to. I mean, you're still pretty young.

Katie Dooley: 21:26

Yes. And no, I think there's some things that I am bolder on because of experience, yeah. And then there's some things I'm like, No, that we can pass on that like I said, you know, now when I travel and I'm like, Oh, I don't want to go out after dark, whereas, like when I was 22 I'd be like, whatever. I'll catch still safe, but I'll catch a cab and I'll do the thing, and I'll go to the go to the West End Show in London, or, you know, go to the bar, or whatever it is. And now I'm like, No, I'm good. I'll buy a bottle of wine and crawl into bed. But there's definitely, like, life and business things that I'm like, No, I'm definitely, like, coming into my own. I'm like, I said I'm 34 and people say, you stop caring after about 3540 and so I'm definitely more willing to have hard conversations and set boundaries and how

Mark Laurie: 22:25

do I want to wear this? Just like you get older, you tend to tolerate less crap, don't you? Yeah,

Katie Dooley: 22:31

and I guess maybe because I'm sort of at that transition age of like, now I'm just starting to tolerate less crap. That feels risky to me to actually be like, No, we're not gonna have this conversation. Or, you know, I'm gonna leave those feel like, higher. I'm also like, I don't even know if I'm a recovering people pleaser, I'm a people pleaser. So having those conversations feels big to me, but it's starting to happen more often. So it's

Mark Laurie: 23:02

experience. It does that. I remember when I was a young photographer starting off, and we'd come up with an idea we thought was just brilliant, as only young, naive photographers can the old hand guy then he was, like, my age, and you go nowhere. I could do that. We're not even going to talk about it. Such a stupid idea. About years I thought, you Erica bugger. And years later I discover, oh, my God, I'm him. Like counseling comes up, like my experience goes where I'm gonna spend time on that we'll move on to something else. And I thought he was just worldwide.

Katie Dooley: 23:34

Yeah, that's fair.

Mark Laurie: 23:36

You're a curious person. What are you curious about right now? What's got your attention?

Katie Dooley: 23:40

Oh, What has my attention? I don't know a lot of a lot of little things. I've been reading a lot of World War Two books right now, historical fiction novels that's I'm reading to right now. I am. We're working on a nativity episode for our podcast, so getting into the Christmas season. Business wise, I'm wanting to get better at the money side. So like accounting and like understanding all the inner workings of the bookkeeping and margins and cost of goods sold, and all these terms that I'm not great at, so

Mark Laurie: 24:37

you're at the age right now. That's the best age for investing, because you have, you have the longest runway ahead of you, and so I got stuff that we invested and just left when I was in my 20s, and you turn, go, oh, okay, that's gonna look after me now,

Katie Dooley: 24:52

yeah. I mean, I hope so. Was it

Mark Laurie: 24:58

a turning point in your life when you. Just went that way. All of a sudden, things changed. Insights hit you and you go out big vision,

Katie Dooley: 25:11

not hugely. I've always been very kind of focused on and very good at executing on where I've wanted my life to go. I think the biggest wrench was meeting my husband because I was not planning on dating or meeting someone. And so, like, none of it's been bad, but there, you know, there was a time where I was like, oh, maybe I'll live abroad, and we haven't. We got married and live here, and it's all been wonderful. But yeah, like, all of a sudden I had met this guy, and we moved in together after a year. And so none of that was really planned, but it's, you know, I still got the jobs I wanted. And, you know, everything else has kind of fallen into place, but we met, and I was going on my first solo trip mark. We met at the end of January in 2013 we met briefly once, and then we went on our first date at the end of February, 2013 and then on May 7, I left for three months to Europe. So, like, I literally had no plans, because I was like, I'm going away. I'm going away. But it worked out.

Mark Laurie: 26:36

We had a client that did that, and her boyfriend, who she liked, was really, really apprehensive, and so we did a photo shoot for her. And then every week, her girlfriend slipped a photograph someplace. He wasn't expecting it of her. Just remind her that he's she's thinking of him. He just blew away. It was really, oh, that's fun. So you've always had kind of a vision. How young does that go when you sit back and suddenly goes, Oh, I'm the master of my destiny, 2347, 10. It's

Katie Dooley: 27:02

so funny that we're talking about this mark. I was just like thinking about this on when I was driving yesterday, I'd say aspects as early as eight. Yeah, obviously things have changed, but I, you know, have been conscientious of like your decisions have consequences since eight, and it's, you know, I'm just gonna tell you I was having this thought in my brain because I'm seeing some girlfriends on Friday, and one of them were all the same age. We went to high school together. Said, you know, after 30, it's all downhill. And so I was thinking about her saying that because we're hanging out this week. And I was like, and then my dance teacher, who's just turned 60, was complaining about turning 60. And I was like, but what you accomplished between zero and 30? She got my dad's teacher got to do that twice, because she's 60, and she has time potentially, to do that a third time, and one zero to 30 doesn't even count, because you don't, you aren't conscious of everything. So what I did in 24 years from eight to 3424 26 years to eight to 34 I can do all over again before I'm 60, right? So I got married, I got a college degree, I graduated high school, I've traveled to half a dozen countries. I started a business. I competed a high level artist dancing. I can do that all again, right? So to be like, Oh, it's over at 30. I'm like, No, you can't do that three more times,

Mark Laurie: 28:40

and you hit on this one fellow I was talking to. He turned 55 and he said, I'm middle aged the first 10 years, the first 20 years, you're really part of your parents, like you're not really. You haven't started life really. You start life at 2025, somewhere around there. And so you start kind of growing and seeing things, get your feelings, you know, all sudden you're 55 because you 55 because you really just at your middle age stage and and now you can, you've got this big, long runway ahead of you to play with, yeah,

Katie Dooley: 29:10

right. Like I could go to university all over again, and I could, you know, pick a different sport or a different activity, and then become very good at it. And I won't say I've mastered Irish dancing, but yeah, and so anyway, that's sort of my short story. I figured people

Mark Laurie: 29:29

get nervous for you, for your your traveling and some of the adventure things you do, some people go, Oh my God, what are you doing again?

Katie Dooley: 29:36

Yeah, my mom's always been a bit of a helicopter mom, so even my first trip, she was very anxious about and she was very worried about Guatemala. I think most people are just like, oh, that's Katie. So she'll keep us posted.

Mark Laurie: 29:57

What's the best advice you've ever received? You just tell. Whole deer.

Katie Dooley: 30:01

My babysitter, I was probably kind of seven or eight, she said, Don't try to fit in. Figure out where you fit.

Mark Laurie: 30:14

That is really good. Don't fit in. Try to figure out where you fit. Yeah,

Katie Dooley: 30:19

and I've never forgotten it . . . so.

Mark Laurie: 30:22

Wise. Babysitter. I hope she got a tip that day.

Katie Dooley: 30:25

I don't know. I didn't have any money, Mike, but she wasn't that old. She might have been. She might be 10 years older than me. So she would have been, well, being 17. I was like, now looking back, I'm like, That's really impressive.

Mark Laurie: 30:40

That's incredible for that stage there. Do you feel people understand you? You said, you know, that's all, Katie, do you think people understand

Katie Dooley: 30:45

you? I think, I mean, depending on the person, to varying degrees, that's why we have an array of friends and family. You know? Yeah, my closest friends definitely have understood what they've gotten into with me, yeah, but there's definitely people who don't get it. So yeah, and I one of those areas and and for someone who's been in business for 45 years, I'd love to hear my employed friends don't understand the business. My parent friends don't understand why we're child free. So there's, I mean, there's aspects. There's very few people that get all of it, but it's a Yeah. Most people,

Mark Laurie: 31:39

yeah. How many close friends do you have?

Katie Dooley: 31:42

Oh, I'm an extrovert, so I know I could probably pick up the phone in an emergency and could get 20 people. Wow, yeah, I'm very lucky. Like you said, I'm not super close with my mom, but I have an amazing chosen family of people that if I needed something, I could

Mark Laurie: 32:06

what are my characteristics of your inner circle? The top 510, 20 friends that are in your inner circle, what would be their couple of characteristics that says, Yeah, this, when you hit this thing, you're in the Taylor Swift circle. You're in your circle.

Katie Dooley: 32:20

I All of my friends are, I mean, I guess anyone would say this about their friends, but all my friends, at their core, are really good human beings. They're all very generous and very loyal. Yeah, yeah, I would say that's sort of the biggest one. We all have a very similar sense of humor, like we all have a lot of fun together, yeah, and I don't know, I just feel like personality wise, like even growing up as a teenager, I mean, all teenage girls are awful, flooded with hormones. All teenage girls are awful. But like the girlfriends I'm seeing on Friday, we've been friends since junior high, and like, none of us did drugs, we would if we did drink underage, it was that, like someone's house, like we were all just like, good we all got good grades, like, and that's kind of, you know, I know how many you know, you know, we're all steadily employed and in stable relationships and like, we're just kind of all really in the same stage of life and have sort of the same outlook on Life, yeah, but my friends are also really diverse, and we had a small wedding, but I joked my husband, had we a big wedding? It would have been funny to have, you know, the gay couple sitting next to the Muslim couple, sitting next to the Mormon couple, sitting next to the metal heads, like we would have just had the most eclectic group of people sitting next to the conservative Alberta farmers like we would have had the weirdest, big wedding.

Mark Laurie: 34:09

Where do you find meaning in your life?

Katie Dooley: 34:12

Sorry,

Mark Laurie: 34:13

where do you find meaning in your life?

Katie Dooley: 34:21

I don't know. I think it's in people and experiences, right? Like at the end of the day, that's all we really have. You know, we can't take it with you, so be kind and do cool stuff, yeah,

Mark Laurie: 34:38

just some great value. How do you define success?

Katie Dooley: 34:43

Oh, that's something I've, you know, wrestled with over the years, and I think it's changed over the years too, because if you can't tell Mark, I'm kind of bad at looking back from where I came from, and I'm always what's the next goal? Yeah, so I have to acknowledge that success has changed, because there's a time where I thought we would never be homeowners, and here we are about to renew our mortgage for the first time. I think success comes from being true to yourself, and if you're I'm in branding, so I hate the word authentic. It's overused. But I think if you're just sort of being true to yourself, and you'll know what success means. That's kind of vague, but as long, yeah, as long as you're doing the things you want to be doing. And I just, for me, you know, that's being able to travel and do my business, you know, being able to make How does

Mark Laurie: 35:49

it evolve? Well, what's an earlier version? Way, way back? Version of success?

Katie Dooley: 35:53

Oh, let's go way, way back. Like trying to pay rent. Like paying rent was success. And like, being able to have to afford to feed friends for dinner, like to have another couple over for dinner and not be like it's pot luck, that would be an early form of success. Was there a

Mark Laurie: 36:20

critical turning point in your life, like for your business, or something, where you where you as a pivotal moment, that you had a humble about your business, or just Aha, that that's the point of things I don't

Katie Dooley: 36:36

know. I feel like there's been small ones over the years. So one that stands out as I rebranded at 2019 that was one where I was like, Okay, let's changes the scope of what I'm capable of, because I was called Katie Dooley designs before, so a one person show, from the sounds of it, and sounds like a freelancer. And so then we changed to paper on creative and we advertise ourselves as a small boutique agency, which is what we are. And we have a team of four, including myself. So yeah, just having this bigger opportunity built, built right into the name. And then I'd say, probably about three years ago, I realized that you can sell a business. And I wish I knew that. I wish I had that vision sooner for myself. My mom was eight years into business, and so that's really changed how I approach decision making, is that, and even you know the never ending To Do List of being a business owner, how I pick things? Because I want to build something that I can sell, and, you know, makes the

Mark Laurie: 37:50

investment. So what kind of things change that you're thinking you can sell your business? What choices? How do choices change? Yeah,

Katie Dooley: 38:01

so hiring, I had their contractors, but having a team was that all of a sudden, really important, so that I knew I wasn't the only one doing it. Because if it's just me, you can't do that. And so, you know, bringing other people in and introducing my clients to other people has been really important, so they know it's not just me. And then with that systems and processes, there's still a work in progress, but that's like, the big thing, right? It is, how do we replicate it, and how do we get my lovely team to work when I'm not around? Or, you know, yeah, what input do I need to give to get work started and people on their way? And I

Mark Laurie: 38:46

have a question just to cross my mind. I've never asked anybody a chance to answer this yet. Because you're a creative person, how does AI coming into your realm like into your that's not so much your business, but more the theory of how you look at the world, how you see it changing because of AI, and

Katie Dooley: 39:03

I love this mark, because you and I were, we had a conversation years ago about this, I think the very first day we met, I don't know. And you were so you had so much foresight. So you're gonna have to give me your opinion too. So far, it's been not awful from a career perspective. There are some really great tools. I'm not gonna lie. I love generative, generative fill on Photoshop, especially when you need to expand a photo that's not big enough. So I love some of the tools, obviously, I want it sourced ethically from consenting designers and artists. From a client perspective, I think for me right now, it's not a huge threat, because it doesn't necessarily it's not. Really outputting what people want. So it's very much like five or Canva for me, where people are like, Oh, I played around, and it's still not doing what I want. So I'm going to hire you anyway. And also I always say, like, if you want AI design, you were never going to come to me to begin with. You would go down to Fiverr or Canva anyway. I know AI is going to get better, but I also wonder if the users are gonna get better, right? So if you put into one of these image generates realtor logo, it would spit you at a house, and that's not an effective logo for a realtor. They all have a house, so I still think there needs to be a creative brain behind it. That is going but that's not the right solution, no.

Mark Laurie: 40:48

So the pace of AI is intriguing. A guy was explaining the growth of it, the explanation nature of it, and he explained that in 10 years, the like right now, AI has a AI has an IQ of 152 and 10 years it's project without an IQ of 1000 they're starting to measure AI's emotional IQ as well, which is interesting,

Katie Dooley: 41:15

yeah? And again, I know it's gonna get better, but you still need to ask the right question, yeah? And I just don't know, because, like you said, if you Google realtor logos, it's going to be pages and pages of houses like even Google doesn't know that. That's not the right answer. Google has, I don't know, almost 30 years of scouring the internet for realtor logos,

Mark Laurie: 41:38

there's asking him the right question, I think, is, is the mantra of the day. I first encountered that particular phrase with iRobot, and he's got the, you know, the hologram, and he keeps on asking questions. And then finally, if he says that is the right question, Detective, he just turns off that that's really what this comes down to. Because whoever can ask clever questions gets interesting responses.

Katie Dooley: 42:09

Yeah, but then part of me goes, if I am asking I the right question that I already know the answer. You know, you know what I mean. Like, if I know that the House logo is not the right response for create me a realtor logo, then I'm already halfway there to designing it. Oh, yeah, you know. So I mean, maybe it'll and I do use AI for research. Obviously, be

Mark Laurie: 42:36

it crops up in so many different ways. It's, it's becoming an extension of our lives, which is both interesting. Now, you talked about wanting to have aI grown ethically from a green stuff. Are you? Would you be one of the ethical people? You could say, Okay, I'll let AI learn on my stuff. Or would you say, No, can't touch my artistic

Katie Dooley: 42:59

um, I think there's, I don't know, there's some projects I'd probably say no to and some projects I'd probably say, Sure, yeah, I don't know. I mean, my stuff's on Google, so it's already

Mark Laurie: 43:18

been scraped already as it goes. So, I

Katie Dooley: 43:20

mean, I don't really have a choice. It's just people who use it, use AI need to, yeah, that's where the decision will be made. Is what AI generators are being used? If people are choosing ethical ones, then, yeah, the property.

Mark Laurie: 43:35

I'll be back to you again. What is your personal trait you're most proud of when your guiding light personal trait being your obituary, Katie was,

Katie Dooley: 43:49

um, oh, I mean, I think if my friends had to say it, they probably say something like, sent like funny or like fun To be around, or life of the party. I think that's what people would say about me and my obituary.

Mark Laurie: 44:06

What personality trait Do you wish that you had?

Unknown: 44:16

I am. I think I really respect people who are very direct. I have a couple friends that are just, they'll, they'll not in a rude way, but they'll just happily, like, if it needs to be said, they'll say it. And I'm like, maybe, maybe we've tried this way, and like, try to show yourself things. And yeah. So I have a couple friends that are very straight shooters, and I respect that a lot.

Mark Laurie: 44:48

I have a very odd curiosity question for you, because you mentioned obituary, but will you like an obituary? Because it's a real big you're how excited your life was. It'll show. Writing says, yeah, she was great, and she passed on, oh,

Unknown: 45:02

I went, No, I want, I'm not a huge one, but I want my life highlights. My life to be highlighted, and I want it to be well designed. I was, unfortunately, I was at a funeral recently for someone who was far too young to pass and the funeral card was actually really well designed. And I said to the friend, I was like, make sure mine is well designed, because these are always awful. And that's all I care about, is that the card is well designed. So I'll tell you that too, Mark, it's been out there in the world a few people. There you go. My Memorial card is gorgeous. That's

Mark Laurie: 45:39

okay. I'll make sure that a friend of mine had a thing. He's got his will, but he has a thing called the Death Wish. And what the Death Wish is the stuff that doesn't go into in the will that you stuff like this. I want a well designed, you know, death card. I want this to go to here. I, you know, I don't want these things. This is my I thought that was a brilliant piece. Like solve little nuances, and they're there. You change them the updates to me. Change the regular basis, so that there's all these little, little quirky things that happen. You know, I like you want my facebook page shut down or not,

Unknown: 46:13

right? We have, we have an emergency behind her. So that's probably a good place to put in. That would be a place to be my best friend Chloe. Can go through my browser history and Clare.

Mark Laurie: 46:24

That's amazing. Well, I'm gonna wrap this up for us. You've been a wonderful guest. It's been a nice, diverse conversation. I've enjoyed it. Katie is an astounding designer. As you can see what's behind her. There all that information about how you can access her quirky designs and her unique perspective on the world will be in the bio, and she'll have links and stuff there. So if she appeals you that way, and then you'll also put in the link to her podcast theology, it'll be great. So thank you so much, Katie,

Katie Dooley: 46:52

thanks Mark for having me.

Exit speaker: 46:55

This has been fascinating. Women with Mark Laurie join us on our website and subscribe at fascinating women dossier. Fascinating women has been sponsored by inner spirit photography of Calgary, Alberta, and is produced in Calgary by Lee Ellis and my office media.