introduction: 0:03

Mark, you're listening to fascinating women with Mark Laurie. And now, Mark Laurie,

Mark Laurie: 0:10

Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest podcast, fascinating women. I'm your host, Mark Laurie, usually, as I've often mentioned, I'm photographing these wonderful women, and they get some incredible stories. And Roberta is him and I started photographing way back in 1984 about let me go back for a long, long ways, and she has had a very interesting life. So welcome Roberta. Thank you for joining us.

Roberta Nickle: 0:35

Oh, welcome Mark. So

Mark Laurie: 0:42

what just you have some maybe, like a minute or so. Give us some quick life highlights, some stuff, some major milestone achievements in the last years.

Roberta Nickle: 0:52

Oh, well, let's see. Where did I done a little bit of background work in new movies, and I now work in catering at the Calgary Stampede.

Mark Laurie: 1:18

You've done some dances. I recall, oh,

Roberta Nickle: 1:20

yeah, still, belly dance. And I also took up a square dancing.

Mark Laurie: 1:27

Oh, you'd mentioned at some point that you had worked in the not the armed forces, the naval forces, I guess would be

Roberta Nickle: 1:33

I was in the Navy for 18 and a half years.

Mark Laurie: 1:37

But what age were when you joined them?

Roberta Nickle: 1:40

17 and six months as young as they take me.

Mark Laurie: 1:43

Why did you join them that early? Why did you join what was your Well, I mean, thing,

Roberta Nickle: 1:49

it's something that some people would say, it's in the blood, yeah, yeah. My father, he was in the Navy when I went in, it made his day, particularly when he found out that I was able to get into the same trade he had been in, which was Wow, communications. And at that time, communications was very much an old boys net, right that so I had to pretty much prove myself against them.

Mark Laurie: 2:35

How'd you do that?

Roberta Nickle: 2:39

Basically, great, big smile, and basically working just as hard, if not harder, than most of the men.

Mark Laurie: 2:53

What that was like 18 years did you progress through the administration chain or just stayed the same position?

Roberta Nickle: 3:02

I literally was all over the country, and during those 18 and a half years, I saw more of Canada than anyone in my family I ever saw.

Mark Laurie: 3:16

Did you get out of the country? Tall or just basically in Canada?

Roberta Nickle: 3:19

I did get out of the country, but it was on my own time

Mark Laurie: 3:23

I see. What would you say would be the five biggest things you pulled out of, out of the that served you? You left the Navy.

Roberta Nickle: 3:32

Oh, basically, yeah, having a hide like iron, that, uh, I can give it back as as tough as anyone can give it to me, and also to be able to prove that I can do the job and be a hard worker.

Mark Laurie: 4:06

Must give you a lot of discipline.

Roberta Nickle: 4:08

Yeah, there was that I've got. So now, when I set my mind to something, I go for it. That because it's, I, it's it's just part of the training you you have to have that mindset that this is the assignment I've been given, and just get in there and you do it

Mark Laurie: 4:40

pretty powerful. Now, did you the skill set that you did? Because having a Navy guy for a dad that you clearly looked up to so much, did that shape your childhood like that was

Roberta Nickle: 4:50

a certain degree. Yeah, because when I came along that he was working with the railway, so I was really. A Navy brat. I'm a railway

Unknown: 5:01

brat. Okay?

Roberta Nickle: 5:06

That I would get a chance to go with him to work, particularly when he was working passenger. What did he do? He was a conductor.

Mark Laurie: 5:19

Conductor. What the change? That's what. So that's what. She must have seen. A bit of candidates for that way as well.

Roberta Nickle: 5:26

I saw most of Western Canada.

Mark Laurie: 5:31

But how did that shape your view of the world?

Roberta Nickle: 5:36

I kind of developed an appreciation for the for the world that I that I literally could see out of the window, and I even once I got off the train to take it in

Mark Laurie: 5:56

little sense of wonder. Yeah, I What are you curious about now these

Roberta Nickle: 6:04

days? Oh, do you really want to know?

Mark Laurie: 6:09

I do we do want to know

Roberta Nickle: 6:13

I am a witch.

Mark Laurie: 6:16

Okay, let's elaborate a bit. I come with a whole bunch of connotations in this world today. What's that? What's that mean?

Roberta Nickle: 6:24

Well, I am basically. I'm eclectic. There are various aspects of Wicca I enjoy that I am learning about, I work and help with various of the witches markets that we have here in town, and I also get a chance to do reconnaissance and see all The good stuff.

Mark Laurie: 7:01

What is reconnaissance in the Witch World?

Roberta Nickle: 7:05

Well, when there is a

Mark Laurie: 7:07

it's really interesting, so I'm curious. Well,

Roberta Nickle: 7:10

in the when there is a witch's market, I get to go around and see everything that everybody is selling before I decide whether I'm gonna buy anything.

Mark Laurie: 7:25

The transit observer that's wild drew you too. What drew you to wicker? I think

Roberta Nickle: 7:32

it was something that I'd always been into, that I had always been able to do, but I didn't totally understand it, and I finally found a light group here in town that has helped me to figure it out that it's not something I'm not strange,

Mark Laurie: 8:08

that's always a good feel, someplace where you belong, that's always nice. He said you could always something. You could always do. What? What do you mean by that? What could you always do?

Roberta Nickle: 8:17

Sometimes I could know things that people that were going to happen before they actually happened. And I couldn't always, I couldn't always figure out why, and I got to the point that I wouldn't tell people, because it would upset them.

Mark Laurie: 8:35

Yes, I can imagine, did we get to see your future as well, or just other people's

Roberta Nickle: 8:42

mostly other people's yeah

Mark Laurie: 8:46

is, can that be unsettling?

Roberta Nickle: 8:50

Sometimes that if it's family, it's sort of it's a little too close. But if it's not family, because it's not that close. I can. It's something I can. I don't say, I don't say I can. Do it all the time, but when it happens, it's sort of, oh, now, should I tell the person or not?

Mark Laurie: 9:30

If you tell them, can they change what's going to happen? Are they just aware it's going to happen? They're just aware rare. So it's really fixed in time. Yeah, the

Roberta Nickle: 9:39

advantage sometimes it could change. Save a couple of times I have been able to know when someone is going to be arriving. Me before anybody else does, but it's going to happen. But I can't tell you exactly when you know as into what time. It's just, it's something, it will it's going to happen. Intriguing.

Mark Laurie: 10:21

That could be a useful tool. Great. Now you're, you've also, I mean, have a great joy with your with your belly dancing. How did you get interested

Roberta Nickle: 10:31

in that? Well, I was, it's the music caught me. And also, I used to belong to the Society for creative anachronism. And some of the there was a couple of girls in the SCA at the time that did belly dancing, and they decided they wanted to do a workshop. And those of us within the SCA here in town were invited and well, the rest is history. Didn't realize that they created a monster, because you have some

Mark Laurie: 11:21

incredible costumes with that you've designed and we photographed. Well, what's a memory that you like to go back to from your dad from when you're dancing in your early days?

Roberta Nickle: 11:37

The fun, the fun part is a mix of dancing and navy and I had a chance to dance for one of my commanding officers for his 40th birthday.

Mark Laurie: 11:54

That must have been a very interesting moment.

Roberta Nickle: 11:59

Well, they I was told that they asked me because they knew he wouldn't get mad at me. What

Mark Laurie: 12:10

was his reaction?

Roberta Nickle: 12:12

Well, I temporarily cured him of his John the Baptist complex.

Mark Laurie: 12:18

I can imagine that would work

Roberta Nickle: 12:22

that was the deal was that I was to come into his office and I had a little speech I was supposed to give to him, which was happy four days until 40, enjoy while you can. And then I danced for him. And that basically he just implored him. But that was, that was that was a fun

Mark Laurie: 12:59

moment. Was a fun moment. What? What other kind of hijacks like when we were talking you brief, alluded to some like hijinks, I guess would be a good phrase for it, some things that were interesting during your deployment days in the Navy.

Roberta Nickle: 13:13

Yeah, most of them, I can't tell you, because it's a case the some of the individuals are still alive,

Mark Laurie: 13:23

still alive. I see so much about like a memoir coming. I can imagine

Roberta Nickle: 13:27

the great Canadian novel

Mark Laurie: 13:30

you go sounds perfect. It sounds perfect when you left the Navy. What did you transition into?

Roberta Nickle: 13:37

Well, at that time, I became the permanent caregiver for my mother, and I literally, well, then at that point, my dancing became my my Outlook, my outlet to blow off some of the tension and everything else that was went with being the caregiver

Mark Laurie: 14:16

a chance. That's probably why you dance so free. Yeah, and then mud,

Roberta Nickle: 14:19

and then I met you. Well, I'd always wanted to be do a play by bunny spread, right? However, we know what happened to Playboy, that's right, so, but I still wanted to try and, well, we all know the rest is history.

Mark Laurie: 14:40

Now, that's true. That is true. Do you have any heroes that you follow up to or look or emulate?

Roberta Nickle: 14:50

One of my commanding officers who she's still alive, she was she eventually. Came Commodore, the first female Commodore in Canada. Impressive. And not only was she my commanding officer, she was also a very good family friend,

Mark Laurie: 15:19

and one of the key things you learn from her,

Roberta Nickle: 15:24

literally, don't, don't give up on anything if you, if you decide to start it, start something, don't give up on it.

Mark Laurie: 15:35

Continue it through. That's very, very powerful. What have you changed your mind about recently? Something that you thought one way you now think a different way about

Roberta Nickle: 15:53

now that it's kind of hard to say, because I've been doing some other odds and ends during stampede this past year, I got a chance to do some volunteer work because there was nothing happening in my The Department I'm in, and during Stampy week, I was babysitting draft horses.

Mark Laurie: 16:28

Those were big creatures. They're big babies. Big babies. Are they?

Roberta Nickle: 16:33

Yes, that, yeah, that, they like me? Well, they kind of give me the look of me, you know, you want so

Mark Laurie: 16:53

you spent your day just petting big horses.

Roberta Nickle: 16:56

Yeah, that sort of the they give me the look of no one's looking. No one is going to say anything. A wee ball. It was okay. And also that the volunteer group that does draft horse town at stampede, they got so many good, positive comments and positive feedback, they want me to work with them again next year.

Mark Laurie: 17:36

Oh, that's great. That's really cool. Must be something look forward to. I two that keeps me reenactment

Roberta Nickle: 17:48

kept me out of trouble for about five seconds.

Mark Laurie: 17:52

I was at a reenactment with a medieval warrior kind of thing, right? And the scene called for a guy to charge to a couple of warriors. They're in battle, fake battle cast up, and so they're charging towards us, guys this sword and the horse recognized one of the warriors on the ground as the guy that gave him apples all the time, so he suddenly stopped, and then kind of cozy that looking for an apple. We're not gonna hurt him. We're gonna get apples from him. Yeah. What other you've written a lot of eclectic things, I think, more than anyone else I've talked to in this six season podcast series. I don't think anyone's done as many eclectic things as you have. What else have you done? You've got the caregiver, Navy person, first babysitter. Wicked woman, belly dancer. What else is in the mix?

Roberta Nickle: 18:49

You can throw in square dancer.

Mark Laurie: 18:52

Square dancing. That's right, sounded like an evolution from the belly dancing, just a whole

Roberta Nickle: 18:56

different music. Yeah. Well, also that, the person that got me into it. She also belly dances as well. And she said, How would you like to learn? And I said, Well, why not? Well, needless to say, and I enjoyed it so much. I went to a convention over the Labor Day weekend, down up at LaDuke and danced my little feet off.

Mark Laurie: 19:36

I can see you doing that. I can see you doing that. Just have any inspirational quotes that keep you focused?

Roberta Nickle: 19:47

Not really I can, I can. I can throw things to people, sort of, I. Was there was one I used to that I saw it on a t shirt, and I said, I've got to get this if I ever have a boyfriend, that's what I'm going to get for him. It says, I am a Viking male, I fear Odin and my wife and you are another.

Mark Laurie: 20:27

Yep, I can see him wearing that. What is something you failed at you, but you seemed like a person who's taken anything on and eventually triumphed with Is there anything that didn't work out for you?

Roberta Nickle: 20:46

Basically, trying to get after my mother passed, I had to try to find other ways of earning a living, right? And sometimes it didn't always work out. I ended up working mostly temp, and it kind of after a while it was I really wanted to have something more and not have to be wondering week to week where I was going to be working. That was the only thing. But I figured, I'm getting to the point now I'm not going to worry about

Mark Laurie: 21:33

it anymore. Just go with the flow. Where do you find your joy each day? Oh,

Roberta Nickle: 21:44

just being able to get up and still be be alive and kicking.

Mark Laurie: 21:50

We get to that age, it's like, oh, look, I'm on the right side of the grass today. That's good,

Roberta Nickle: 21:55

yeah, so far, I am not doing a close up, personal inspection of the root system of the clover.

Mark Laurie: 22:07

You go, I love that. I need to find success.

Roberta Nickle: 22:15

Success, having something that you do, that you enjoy, and maybe get a little recognition out of it,

Mark Laurie: 22:37

with that. How do you see challenges like you are challenges, just obstacles to overcome, are they? Do you have an approach for every challenge that you face, a method

Roberta Nickle: 22:46

I try to Yeah,

Mark Laurie: 22:51

what's your approach to the challenge?

Roberta Nickle: 22:55

Basically, look at it. What is it? What's involved with it, and then go for it, do it.

Mark Laurie: 23:09

Very practical nature. What three beliefs guide you? What? What's your North Star? I

Roberta Nickle: 23:31

side, sort of my my guide is that's a good question. It's kind of hard to put into words.

Mark Laurie: 23:49

Okay, what do you have? Three beliefs, things that you hold dear,

Roberta Nickle: 23:56

truth, fidelity. And love of country, willing to stand up to uphold the value that those that have gone before me have to make this country what it is today.

Mark Laurie: 24:35

You've got a huge pride in country, which really comes out every time we talk. It's been 18 years in navy. It's for a purpose. It's for a reason. Did you ever want to join the Navy? I just find that fascinating, because you first woman in your in your unit, that's just so cool. Did you ever mostly think, what the hell am I doing here? Then. A big adventure that you just climbed onto.

Roberta Nickle: 25:05

It was sort of, I climbed on and I rode with it

Mark Laurie: 25:12

was your dad giving you advice, like

Roberta Nickle: 25:16

you must be very proud. He just basically told me, Don't let them get think that they've got you Yeah, that they've that they've gotten to you. You that You know that you've got the training. You know what you're doing. Do it?

Mark Laurie: 25:42

Did that training come useful in later years?

Roberta Nickle: 25:49

Yeah, there's parts of it that became that I could incorporate into a non military background.

Mark Laurie: 26:06

So do you find having been I had a friend of mine who was at his his view. So basically, there's two kinds of people who wrote, people have been in the military and understand how it works and see the world through that lens, and people who don't fully appreciate how protected they are. You feel that mindset as well, that once you've been the military, you're you're different than the population, like it's always part of

Roberta Nickle: 26:30

you. Yeah, it always is, that you, you don't always know what it's going to be that's going to trigger it. But I find that I just warn people in advance that I can slip into command mode, and if you, if you try to think that you're better than I am, look out, because if I go into command mode, you're not gonna like me when I go into command mode, one of my bosses at work, He said, What's this commando bit show me? And I said, you really, really want me to and he said, Yes. So of course, he towers over me, right? I looked him up, dead in the eye, and I said, you lie down. I want to have words with you. And his jaw dropped.

Mark Laurie: 27:46

That would be the ability to have that kind of the tone of voice. I mean, my mother had it out of occasion as well. I think most moms do, but to have a tone of voice that instantly cuts through everything and takes control of situation, that's just an amazing skill to have, pretty powerful.

Roberta Nickle: 28:04

It comes in handy at work sometimes that when you've got an 18 year old the things they know it all, and it's sort of, no, I will not lie, no, I will not get down and kiss your foot. You can kiss,

Mark Laurie: 28:28

I love that. It's really good. What? What gave you the biggest adrenaline rush, something that you just did and you just, I just felt huge and empower and incredibly wonderful. What was that one, oh,

Roberta Nickle: 28:43

taking a very good old friend of mine who's no longer with us on every ride at the stampede that Kim was blind. He'd been born blind, but he loved to go on all the gut busters at stampede for the sensation. And he thought it was great, because I take him all on, all of them, and when nobody else would. And he just thought that was, that was just so grand. And the fact that I like to get i Okay, I periodically have this need for speed.

Mark Laurie: 29:39

Can't imagine. Did he ever describe his feeling like because, with most people, you can see what's coming and you can prepare for it, like on some of these rides. But when you're blind, all you get is the moment of falling, the moment of being thrown. How did he feel? Did he express that at all?

Roberta Nickle: 29:54

Oh, when he was on the rides with me, that he. He would start to laugh, and the more he laughed, the more he was experienced. He was enjoying the experience sensation. That's how I knew.

Mark Laurie: 30:13

Just imagine like that, because your whole life is sensations. At that point, you know what you hear, what you feel, what you see, and those designs are designed. Just optimize them. I could just imagine being with them and watching that glow your joy and see why it's a special day. What personality trait are you most proud of that you saw? This is the trait that defines me. I

Roberta Nickle: 30:44

Well, the fact that I've done some things and seen some places and been some places that nobody else has been to.

Mark Laurie: 30:55

Can you tell us one of those Egypt, Egypt, that was your dancing.

Roberta Nickle: 31:03

Yeah, there was a group of us, all women, and as we put it, we have left our husbands, families and significant others, and we went to Egypt and we had fun. And as our our tour guide put it, she said, I've never had a group like you guys. Said, you want to see all the sites you you, you there's something that she said, and then you start to dance at the drop of a downbeat. I've never had a group like you guys. Remarkable. You mentioned shopping, and your eyes light up.

Mark Laurie: 32:02

So that's the most remarkable thing that you saw in Egypt that just left your status for me?

Roberta Nickle: 32:16

That the most remarkable thing that really hit me, the pyramids and the Sphinx. That just the sheer size, particularly the Sphinx, you know, you see pictures of it. You see travel logs in that. But to actually go there and realize, whoa, that this is unreal, that I that I, if I had a chance to do it again, I would, because there were two places, parts that I really wanted to go to, but we didn't have time to go. I wanted to see Alexandria, and I also want to see Abu Simba, which is the temple complex that was moved to higher ground when they built the high dam,

Mark Laurie: 33:24

they moved the whole complex.

Roberta Nickle: 33:28

They literally went through and they marked every piece and did a plan with a plan and everything else, where all the stones and everything else fit, and then they moved it to higher ground, and then they put it back together again. Incredible. And I would have liked to have seen that

Mark Laurie: 34:00

Alexandria, that's the library. What's, what was the key thing that draws you Alexandria?

Roberta Nickle: 34:10

Well, it's got a very storied past, and historically, it's where the bulk of history of the pharaohs happened before, well up until the time of Cleopatra, then after that, it sort of kind of sort of just sat there because, as because Cairo, which most people figure, is, you know, the place that Cairo originally was just as little market was a just a small market town, and Alexandria had the all the facilities it. Had the harbor. It had everything where anything that went out of the country went through Alexandria, anything coming back in came through Alexandria.

Mark Laurie: 35:14

You won't hear much about Alexandria. It's not it's sort of faded a little bit,

Roberta Nickle: 35:19

yeah, but it is definitely very old that and it had at least two of the original seven wonders of the world were part of Alexandria, the library and the Pharaoh's lighthouse,

Mark Laurie: 35:47

the prestigious thing to have through the famous world thinks that's an that's incredible. There anything that really moved you emotionally there, besides the size, the enormous effort to do to go there and have, like a personal discovery.

Roberta Nickle: 36:10

You get a real strange sensation at the pyramids that they only allow X number of people a day to go, actually go inside the pyramid. And our tour group was one of the group of people that got a chance to do it and literally go, yeah, and literally realize all that stone around you. And you know that how intricate the building of that Oedipus was. You know that even today you stand by and look, and you couldn't that the stones are so tightly packed, so tightly put together, that you can't even pass a piece of paper between them.

Mark Laurie: 37:12

What was your emotion in there? You're walking in this huge chamber. There's so much history. It's such a tie to the past. Do it through dancing and your research and so on, what kind of motion did you feel there?

Roberta Nickle: 37:25

It was sort of that there's that there is a, this is a play a part, a place of power.

Mark Laurie: 37:35

He let really, yeah, what kind of power what? How that feel, that sensation,

Roberta Nickle: 37:44

it was power wise. It's sort of, you've heard of, sort of the ley lines,

Mark Laurie: 37:53

yeah,

Roberta Nickle: 37:54

literally, it's like you're sitting on top of several ley lines, all connecting at once at that one spot, and it is like whoa.

Mark Laurie: 38:10

Something that you felt changed your life, inside, your internal clock, your internal sense of the world,

Roberta Nickle: 38:18

in a way, yeah, don't ask me how it's beyond description,

Mark Laurie: 38:29

really, moving, really, really wild. Did you expect to have that feeling when you when you went to Egypt? Was it just a fun lark, or we expect you to have some.

Roberta Nickle: 38:42

No, I was, well, I originally I wanted to go because, well, through the dance, you're learning a bit about the culture. So of course, want to see is find out more about the culture. And also, okay, I like to shop.

Mark Laurie: 39:08

The language is continue.

Roberta Nickle: 39:11

We had no problem with the language, because most Egyptians can converse with you in up to seven different languages, maybe more. We were when we go shopping in the bazaar. We never had a problem. In fact, as soon as they found out we were Canadian, they couldn't do enough for us.

Mark Laurie: 39:39

Really, in what way? How did that connection happen?

Roberta Nickle: 39:43

Well, you go into the bazaar, they kind of know where you might be from. In fact, one. Merchant in one of the markets in her gotta, yeah, I had fun in her gotta shopping that he he said, Where are you from? And I said, Canada. And he said, Oh, Canada Dry. I said, and cold. Well, that finished him. He got a charge out of that, and he said that, me being curious. I said, So why? And he said, he said, If you had said you were an American, it would have been a whole different ball game, because they, they'll, they take Americans because, well, tourists are tourists. They spend money. But most Americans won't, don't want to get involved into the that lovely little thing called barter. And I did make a few deal, good deals, by the way of playing with knowing in the back of my mind what the object that what I was I wanted to get was really worth and then doing a quick conversion from Canadian dollar to Egyptian pound, and figuring whether I had actually got a good deal or not, it

Mark Laurie: 42:00

must be exciting bartering? Like, like, that's a real barter culture. Like, here

Roberta Nickle: 42:05

we barber when we were there, you can barter almost on almost anything except gold, gold price, yeah, but everything else, I mean, I got some jewelry in with silver and that I got, actually, I got pretty good deal on

Mark Laurie: 42:33

it's cool, as You come up with better barting skills. Well, maybe good. Barter with you and find out, yes, it could take me. Is amazing. Well, thank you for your time. Today, it's been delightful. I've feel like I've build back some known layers about you know, I've known you for all these years, decades, it's nice to get a interesting peek in what makes you tick, the different gears that work around your mind and motivation. Any parting comments, any last thing to close with,

Roberta Nickle: 43:18

well, saving my pennies and the next monumental birthday,

Mark Laurie: 43:34

that's great. Well, thank you for coming. I appreciate so much. And everyone else, you'll be able to hear a bit more about our bio in the section there. And again, I appreciate your time with us.

Roberta Nickle: 43:45

Roberta, you're more than welcome anytime.

Exit speaker: 43:51

This has been fascinating women with Mark Laurie join us on our website and subscribe@fascinatingwomen.ca fascinating women has been sponsored by inner spirit photography of Calgary, Alberta, and is produced in Calgary by Lee Ellis and my office media.