Elizabeth Gil – Special edition – breast cancer 

The transcript of the conversation is after the synopsis of the conversation.

🏷️ Episode Title

Elizabeth Gil – The Choice for Flatness – Navigating Cancer – Family Resilience – Reclaiming Beauty

Elizabeth Gil – Special episode – Why no reconstruction after an unexpected journey with breast cancer 

🎙️ Episode Description (SEO & AIEO Optimized)

In this powerful special edition of Fascinating Women, host Mark Laurie sits down with Elizabeth Gil to walk through her unexpected journey with breast cancer. What started as routine blood work led to a life-altering discovery and a series of choices that challenge societal norms of femininity. Elizabeth shares the raw details of her diagnosis, the emotional anchor provided by her husband and children, and her firm decision to opt for a bilateral mastectomy without reconstruction.

We explore the transition from "invincibility" to vulnerability, the practical wisdom of using "tomato paste cans" for physical therapy, and why Elizabeth refuses to let the label of "survivor" define her. This episode is a profound exploration of body ownership, the weight of the "guilt backpack," and the healing power of being seen and loved in your most exposed moments. It is an essential listen for anyone facing a health crisis or supporting a loved one through transformation.

3 Core Takeaways:

• Body Sovereignty: The importance of making medical choices based on personal peace rather than societal expectations.
• The Routine of Resilience: How maintaining a sense of normalcy and family routine provides a foundation during a crisis.
• Beyond the Label: Why identity must remain rooted in passion (like Elizabeth’s archery) rather than the trauma of illness.

📝 SEO-Optimized Transcript (For Web/Buzzsprout)

The Unexpected Discovery

A routine check on liver enzymes led to a preventive MRI, which caught two spots of lobular invasive cancer that would have otherwise gone undetected for years.

The Family Anchor

Elizabeth describes the moment of telling her husband and children. Her son, a paramedic student, and her daughter provided a sense of normalcy and immediate support, refusing to let the crisis paralyze the household.

Choosing "Flatness" Over Reconstruction

Elizabeth discusses her firm decision to skip reconstruction. Drawing from her mother’s difficult experience with implants, she chose a path that prioritized movement, health, and a reclaim of her own standard of beauty.

The Physical Road Back

From walking fingers up a wall to lifting tomato paste cans, Elizabeth shares the practical and humorous steps of post-surgical recovery, driven by her need to get back to her passion: archery.

The Power of the Nude Photo Session

Elizabeth reflects on her second photo session with Mark Laurie—this time post-surgery. She describes it as an empowering reclamation of her body, from "the tip of her toes to the last hair on her head."

Navigating Mortality and the "Survivorship" Label

Elizabeth explains why she avoids the word "survivor," preferring to see herself as someone who simply keeps going. She shares how the experience moved her to live more fully in the "right now."

🎥 7 Compelling moments

1. 02:40 – 03:20
   • Dialogue: "When she got her breast cancer diagnosis, I remember saying to myself, it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when... I saw the technician's face changing... 'This is really not good.'"
   • Why it works: High-stakes medical drama that hooks the listener's empathy immediately.
2. 05:15 – 05:55
   • Dialogue: "I called my husband... he knows I would try to handle it myself. He said, 'Don't keep me out of it... whatever it is, we are taking it together.'"
   • Why it works: Highlights the romantic/supportive sub-theme of the episode.
3. 08:15 – 08:55
   • Dialogue: "I said to the doctor, 'I want both of them gone. I don't want to reconstruct.' That’s pretty much how the conversation started. She was like, 'But you don’t have to take both... what about your feminine life?'"
   • Why it works: Challenges societal norms; very "ticklish" topic for modern listeners.
4. 10:45 – 11:25
   • Dialogue: "The other breast was healthy, but I knew I was going to have a ticking time bomb in the back of my head... I wanted both of them gone at once."
   • Why it works: Explains the psychological weight of chronic illness and preventive choice.
5. 12:50 – 13:30
   • Dialogue: "I just want to reaffirm that this is me. I own everything from the tip of my toes to the last hair on my head... I’m sexy, I’m a goddess at times, I’m a warrior princess."
   • Why it works: Pure empowerment gold. Great for an Instagram Reel or TikTok.
6. 15:40 – 16:20
   • Dialogue: "My husband came into the bath and just washed my hair... that sense of being loved every single inch of me. He's not running away, he's not screaming, he's just here."
   • Why it works: A deeply moving, vulnerable moment that proves the episode's emotional depth.
7. 19:15 – 19:55
   • Dialogue: "I don't like to be called a survivor... I'm still at the mercy of the illness, I'm still under its shadow. I'm just somebody who had this surgery and keeps going."
   • Why it works: A "hot take" on cancer culture that invites listeners to hear her full perspective.

📝 Full Verbatim Transcript

(Note: Use this section to paste the word-for-word text provided in the previous sections 1–4, as they are accurate to the audio provided.)

🎥 Social Media & Authority Assets

Authority Positioning: Mark Laurie reinforces his brand as a space for radical honesty and body positivity. By facilitating a conversation that de-stigmatizes "flatness" after cancer, Mark positions himself as a compassionate authority who sees the woman, not just the diagnosis.

Top Pull Quotes:

• "Success is being content and at peace with what you have tried."
• "I wanted to reclaim every little inch of me."
• "The body keeps the score... I don't have to carry that extra weight anymore."

📱 Promotional Content

LinkedIn Post: Title: When "Femininity" is Redefined by a Scalpel Elizabeth Gil returned to Fascinating Women to share the most vulnerable chapter of her life: her battle with breast cancer. But this isn't just a story about illness. It’s a story about choice.

Elizabeth chose a bilateral mastectomy without reconstruction—a decision that shocked her doctors but brought her personal peace. Join us as we discuss: 🛡️ The "ticking time bomb" mentality ❤️ The moment her husband washed her hair post-surgery 🏹 Why she reclaimed her body through photography

Newsletter Teaser: Subject: Tomato Cans and Warrior Princesses In a special edition of Fascinating Women, Elizabeth Gil takes us through her cancer journey. It wasn't the diagnosis that defined her, but her reaction to it. From the "battleground" relationship she had with her body to the empowering nude photo session that helped her reclaim her skin, Elizabeth’s story is a masterclass in sovereignty. Discover why she chose "flatness" and how she used tomato paste cans to fight her way back to her archery bow.

Word-for-word transcript of the episode

Part 1: The Discovery and Initial Diagnosis

Announcer: You're listening to Fascinating Women with Mark Laurie. And now, Mark Laurie.

Mark Laurie: Hello everyone. This is a special edition. Now normally we're talking to fascinating women about how their life was shaped and lessons they've learned and those types of things, but today we have Elizabeth Gil, who has gone through breast surgery. Her mom had it, she lost both breasts, decided not to have reconstruction. So these are different choices and they're not easy, but we thought it'd be useful to go through her journey. And perhaps if you're having to face this or a friend is, this may give you some insights as to how one person handled her journey. Welcome, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Gil: Hi Mark, how are you? 

Mark Laurie: I'm well, I'm well. So let's go back to how the story started.

Elizabeth Gil: Yeah. Yeah, so what happened here is we were not looking for cancer. This was the farthest thing from our mind. It was, I had some blood work and one of my liver enzymes was out of place. But because my dad has a condition that signifies like that change on the values, the doctor said, "Well, let's do an ultrasound just to make sure that we're not missing anything, but you might be just like your dad, had the same enzyme out of value and you're fine." 

Elizabeth Gil: Like, okay. So I went and actually on the 17th of February, four years ago—so it's getting closer—and they placed the camera for the ultrasound, not the ultrasound, for the MRI machine, they placed it about an inch higher than it normally goes. Which happened to grab the bottom part of my breast and that's when they saw there are two points that don't look normal. They shouldn't be there.

Elizabeth Gil: So that was, I got a call within two days from my doctor like, "Come here, I, we need to check something." And she said, "I'm seeing two little spots in your breast that I want checked. I don't know what they are yet, but we need to check." And because my mom had had a history of starting with little tumors, little spots, and then they find out oh, it's actually cancer. When she got her breast cancer diagnosis, I remember saying to myself, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when it's going to be my turn.

Elizabeth Gil: So I'm like, okay, let's go. And I remember going into the ultrasound and that's when I saw the technician's face changing. I'm like, "This is not good, this is really not good." And she's like, "Give me a minute, I'm just going to ask my supervisor," and three other women walk in. I'm like, "This is really not good." 

Mark Laurie: Poker faces, they're not winning.

Elizabeth Gil: No, no, no, no. And that's, I remember walking in cause my doctor said, "I want to talk to you," and the nurse came and said, "Give me a big hug," and she's like, "We don't know until we know, so hold on, you just hold on." Cause she had actually gone through breast cancer a year before. And she said, "You're not necessarily going to die, you just still need to fight, hold on." 

Part 2: Biopsy, Results, and Telling the Family

Elizabeth Gil: And that's how we started. The doctor said, "Yeah, this doesn't look normal, I'm going to send you for a biopsy". I went for the biopsy—I had never seen a needle longer in my life than that day. And I had the sweetest nurse just holding onto my hand as they were going, and she’s like, "Just, you can look onto the camera if you want, you can look at me," and just trying to keep me grounded. And yeah, that’s when they say you have two spots of lobular invasive cancer in your right breast, which is exactly what my mom had.

Elizabeth Gil: And these ones are harder to, to see because normally you see it on the—this is in the duct, not in the actual bags. So the bags are easier to find; this one I wouldn’t have found it for another two years probably, by the time it would have become—I had no symptoms at all, I have nothing. I had a bit of an existential crisis because I—it was COVID times so I had skipped my last breast imaging, you know, because I didn't know can I go, can I not go, what the world is happening. I'm like, I did this to myself; that was my biggest thing. It’s like because I didn't go and get my mammogram on time, then this is why I have it, and it’s like, no, it just, it happened.

Mark Laurie: In that moment when you're in the room doing the final test, did you feel really small? Like what was your, your vision of the world and you at that time? 

Elizabeth Gil: Um, no. It was just being almost like in the, in the middle of the fog, not knowing okay, so is it, is it not, what do I do, where do I move, what happens. Just walking almost like in a dream, and like you know that you still have to go to work, you still have to stay to—the world moves on. And then I, I got the call from my doctor at work, and like, "I just need to let you know, yes it is, but this is what we're doing". And she's like, "Don't you—I know you're scared, but don't give up, we're going to move you through it, we're going to get help".

Elizabeth Gil: And that was incredible, and my principal at the time also—like my teaching partner took me like, "No, you are coming out of the room, you're going downstairs to see the principal". And the principal just came, put a Diet Coke in front of me and she's like, "Okay". And I just whoo, started crying. Like how do I tell my family, what do I do? And she's like, "Just drink your Coke, we'll talk afterwards". Which sounds silly, but it was those little details of care.

Mark Laurie: Anchoring, feeling that you’re not alone kind of thing.

Elizabeth Gil: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I told my—so I call my husband and like, "It's positive". Cause he, when all of this started I said to him, "There is something," and he’s like, "Don't keep me out of it". Cause he knows I would try to just—I'll handle it myself, no worries, I can do this. And he’s like, "Whatever it is, we are taking it together".

Elizabeth Gil: So I call him, and my parents had an apartment at the time here cause the plan was to come and stay with the grandkids more often, so we went into the apartment and I just cry. I cry for a solid hour and a half. I was just like, I'm scared, I don't know like who's going to take care of my kids, who's going to take care of my husband, who's going to look after the insane dog that I have? Those were the biggest fears. So, but we told the kids that night and my son is like, "Okay".

Mark Laurie: How old were the kids at that point? 

Elizabeth Gil: My son was 17 and my daughter was almost 14. Right, I think you mentioned earlier in a previous podcast, so if you want to catch more about who she is as a person, catch the Fascinating Women version of Elizabeth, but your son was going into paramedic? 

Elizabeth Gil: Paramedic, yes. Yeah. He was—he always has wanted to be a helper. He said it to me, he’s like, "I want to be there when people have their worst day so that they are not alone". And the way that he just came and gave me a hug and like, "Yeah, you just did it".

Mark Laurie: Mom's worst day.

Elizabeth Gil: Yeah, yeah. And part of me wanted to go, "How are you?" but it was like no, no, I—right now he, he is in charge. You know, and my daughter is like, "Okay, what you need?" I'm like, "I'm not sure, I'll tell you as we go." And she’s like, "Okay, can I go now?" I'm like, "Yeah, of course," cause she’s like, "I have homework," like, go ahead.

Mark Laurie: The world moves on.

Elizabeth Gil: Yeah, which help, that sense of normalcy in a sense. It was like, okay, yes this is life-changing, this is scary, this is larger than life, but we still need to have supper, the dog needs to be walked, the kids need to finish homework.

Mark Laurie: The routine, you can get lost in the routine.

Part 3: Decision Making and Choosing "Flatness"

Mark Laurie: How did—I guess there's two thoughts coming to mind. One is how quickly did you inform your community, family, friends, that kind of thing was happening? And then what was your next stages as you progress through it? 

Elizabeth Gil: So, I—I called my parents the next day. Like as soon as I had the whole report ready because I knew that there would be questions and I'm like, I'm not sure if I can answer them. So, I called them, especially because we were planning—this was April, like early April, and we had been planning to go to Spain to meet there. And I told my parents like, "Sit down, I need to tell you that I'm not going to Spain this year because I have breast cancer".

Elizabeth Gil: And that—like I felt the weight of the world for them and for me. And my parents immediately, "We're coming!" and I'm like, "No, no, no, no, wait. Wait". I know my mom had gone through her process and, like I mentioned in the other episode, her and I have a battleground relationship. We love each other deeply but we are also very stubborn. And it was like, I actually need to walk this on my own a bit so I know what I'm doing because I—I can't be fighting with you. As much as—and this might sound very selfish—but it's like I love you but I just—I can't fight, I don't have extra right now. And that was really hard.

Mark Laurie: Crushing, especially at the most critical moment in their life where the mother instincts kick in then your daughter saying, "No, no, no, no, no." 

Elizabeth Gil: Exactly. Yeah, but I told her like, let me see, once I know a little bit more, I figure out. Because she had her treatment in Venezuela, the protocols are different. And it was 10 years, 11 years in between hers and mine. So it was like things have changed, I have to adapt. Because she said, "Well, go to Spain, or go to the States," and I'm like, "No, I actually need to have this. I need my routine". As silly as it might sound, I need the routine because this is what is grounding me to not completely crumble.

Elizabeth Gil: So, so yeah, that—that was hard. But they both were respectful. They—they struggle, like especially when I say I don't think I'm going to reconstruct. That was a hit. They were like, "Well where is your femininity? You are not a woman anymore". And I'm like, "Hold it! Wait. Look at me. I—I'm still a woman. I'm okay". But I know that it was also how their brains like trying to cope with everything. So like no, no, I'm still an XX. I'm good. I feel feminine. So, look at my makeup, look at my earrings, I'm—I'm good.

Mark Laurie: So let's—let's just back up a bit because this is the core that makes you different from a lot of women is you didn't have reconstruction surgery. You lose them—I've photographed you, you've got a scar coming across the thing—um, you—you don't wear it as a badge either. It's not like, "I'm this bold person who's got..." No, it's—it's just the way I am right now. What was the thinking behind that, so women who can—who are having to decide between the two things can consider your thoughts? 

Elizabeth Gil: It's a very personal decision. And every woman, even if they have the same kind of cancer, if they go through similar treatment, every woman's path is their own. It's very different. I had seen my mom going through the surgery, they put the expander because she wanted reconstruction. And it got infected and it almost killed her. And then they were not able to reconstruct and they also had moved some of the muscle to provide the anchor, and that left her with perpetual back pain.

Elizabeth Gil: And I sat down there and like, not for me. Not for me. Like, I also had had a very complicated relationship with my breast from childhood because I was larger-breasted than most of my relatives and other people around, so I was the butt of the jokes. "Oh look, her boobs are walking into the room 10 minutes before she walks in," or "she's going to drown the kid". And I was like no. It was with my husband where I discovered that sexiness and that intimate connection and I was better, but to tell them that I was in love with my breast? No, because they were the battleground, one of the battlegrounds.

Elizabeth Gil: So, it was no, I—I decided I don't want to be immobilized. I have a life that I need to continue going through. I feel feminine enough as I am, and my husband was okay with it. I had his support. He said it to me, he's like, "I don't care what you do, I just need you here." 

Mark Laurie: Alive is better than whatever shape you have. 

Elizabeth Gil: Yes, exactly. Yeah. Which doesn't preclude that there has been moments where the conversation has come and there are moments that are hard because it's part of intimacy, it's part of connection, and we—we have heart-to-heart conversations about this. But the overall sense is like yeah, this—this is what it needed to be done and I'm okay with it.

Part 4: Medical Consultation, Reclaiming Identity, and Conclusion

Mark Laurie: It's wild now. You—how—people have to trigger those conversations because a lot of people don’t like to talk about pain, they don’t like to talk about dark things. How do you trigger that kind of conversation? Let’s have a really deep conversation about my breasts are going to be gone, and that’s my choice. So first of all, making sure that everyone understands that it’s your choice. You’re not going to have breast implants because somebody else wants you to, you’re not going to have—not have them because there’s a whole portion, a movement in society that says it doesn’t matter who you are. How do you find your own path and have and trigger those deep conversations without having issues? 

Elizabeth Gil: I think I was in a very lucky place that having witnessed my mom’s process, I had years to think about it. You know, and to figure out what am I comfortable with, what am I not comfortable with. But I think that for women that is more of a surprise, you know, like all of a sudden they are told you have it and it is—have with whoever oncologist you have, your surgeon oncologist, have those conversations and ask them: okay, so what does the process really entail? What are my options? What are you comfortable doing? Because I think also the doctors have a big—they have their own bias. Every doctor does. And it’s normal, we’re humans, we have. So, and ask them: okay, where can I get more information about this? You know, and see if they can refer you to other women that have had different experiences that are willing to mentor or be able to open so that you can have those conversations. 

Mark Laurie: I’d like to just highlight something I think is really important: that doctors have biases too. And I’m sure they try really hard not to, but they’re going to seep in from—you know, from their experience of thousands of women kind of kick into it. And I’m hearing you saying that you’ve got to be very careful that these are your choices, and that you’re informed and you’re not feeling the subtle, maybe they’re even unaware that they’re biased, pressure to go one way or the other based on the fluidity of the popular trend. 

Elizabeth Gil: Yeah. No, I was lucky that my oncologist—I scared her, I think from the first moment I walked in. And she’s like, "Hi Liz, I got your chart. How you doing?" and I’m like, "I’m okay, I want one of them both of them gone, I don’t want to reconstruct." That’s pretty much how the conversation started. And she’s like, "Well, but you don’t have to take both," and I’m like, "No, no, I want both. Like, I’m not going to be lopsided, I don’t want to have to wear a prosthesis, you know." And then she’s like, "Well, what if, you know, if you want—what happens to your intimate life?" Like, we are okay with this. And then she’s like, "Okay, what happened—we can reconstruct the other one," and I’m like, "No, because this is going to be you playing with whatever level of skill you have and—" she was great, but it’s like, "you’re going to be playing like—tuck this one a little bit, put a little bit on this one, and it’s like almost like a Tetris trying to figure out how it’s going to fit." And I’m like, "if at any point I go for both, then they both start from zero. We don’t have to be trying to match and doing all these things which tends to imply multiple surgeries." 

Elizabeth Gil: So she was really good. She’s like, "Well, I’m not going to make a choice right now, you’re not going to make a choice right now. Come back when in our next appointment, which was like two weeks from then," she’s like, "let’s talk about again. Just consider all the things." And I remember the next one she’s like, "Okay, so are we doing a lumpectomy, are we doing a partial mastectomy, or doing a full mastectomy?" I’m like, "Everything. I’m good with it." And she’s like, "Okay, you do know that if you ever want and change your mind, you can reconstruct?" Like, "Yeah, and I appreciate knowing that. It’s very low, but I know myself, I’m going to have a ticking time bomb in the back of my head going: when is this going to drop?" So that’s why I wanted both of them gone at once. 

Mark Laurie: You’ve had—I mean Angelina Jolie, celebrity, that was her choice as well onto it. Do those celebrities when they tell their story, does that make things easier or it’s indifference or just a voice in the darkness? 

Elizabeth Gil: I think it helps just to—to support that this is my decision and I’m okay, somebody else has gone through it. With Angelina, she opted for the reconstruction too, which is what a lot of women do, but she did the preventative. Which I think sometimes—I actually went for the testing to make sure: am I carrying this gene? Because my mom had it, we suspect my grandmother had it, but she died of multiple cancers. And then, is this coming to my kids? So having that knowledge, I think it makes perfect sense to like: okay, let’s take it and then, if you feel comfortable, do the reconstruction, if not, stay flat. For me it was, actually my husband Sean brought it into my attention, there is this lady called Stephanie, she’s also known as the Boobless Babe in Instagram. And she took the—the preventive mastectomy, like she did both and she decided not to reconstruct. And she has become such a power symbol because like, she is sexy as you can imagine, like that woman is drop-dead gorgeous and you look at her like: okay, I didn’t even notice that there are no boobs, she’s just like raw power. And like that helped. That helped to like: you still are you. And you are here. Which is the important point. 

Mark Laurie: That’s the biggest thing is that you’re making cosmetic choices when the bigger picture is you’re here. And you become, I think for a lot of people it becomes a door they go through, the sense of invincibility is now a real thing. But I think there’s a sense of body overall body ownership: that you are now in complete control of your body, you get to have the say for it. And then you can step up in any way you—I mean in the photo session we did and we have women I often get phone calls very last minute, like they’re facing it and all of a sudden they’re going to go in tomorrow and have breasts removed, that surgery. And I get phone calls, "Can you fit me in within two days? I want to photograph them." And then often come back when the reconstruction is done as well just to reaffirm that they’re still beautiful. So that speaks to the people around you, because your beauty, even if you’re comfortable with the loss, you still have a sense of how the world is going to look at your beauty and so on. How is your family supporting for that? Your friends? How would they bolster you? 

Elizabeth Gil: They—they were, I think that a lot of my recovery and my process was I had, like you said, I had a huge community behind me. My friend the Rev was the first one that I said to her: "I—I have breast cancer," and she’s like, "Okay, don’t you worry, we are going to organize a GoFundMe." I’m like, "No, no, no, no!" and she’s like, "Yes, because you have helped others, so this is the time for them to show you that they are there for you." And I remember I came out of the surgery, Sean called her and said, "She’s good, you can tell people," and I start getting messages like, "We are with you, we love you, you’re okay." And it was like, oh my god, like so overwhelming, like almost surreal. And it was, yeah, they came and it’s like, whether I did reconstruct or not, it was like: you are still with us. And for other women, I know that when they see themselves without the breast, they will go because it’s like: "I’m missing a piece." And—and that is okay. It’s just for me, I’m complete as it is. I’m okay with that. But any other women choosing different, it will be okay too, because it’s their—as long as it’s their choice. And they feel this is what I need to do. 

Mark Laurie: You’re kind of lucky because your choice wasn’t fashion model, it was archery. So it just made your archery life a whole bunch easier! 

Elizabeth Gil: Yes! Yes! It is true! Amazons used to remove one of their breasts so they could move the bow, and yeah, it makes sense! 

Mark Laurie: I’m sorry, I just thought it was cute. Have you found that you’ve got a dark humor about not having breasts, when you talk to people or just in general? 

Elizabeth Gil: Um, most people, like the first moment is like, they didn’t realize it. You know, my first experience which put me kind of at the defensive at the beginning was I went to get some documents signed, and I leaned forward to sign and of course you could see down all the way to my belly. Because as a Latin woman, I used to wear a lot of very open T-shirts because I love the cleavage, like to me that—that is a sign of sexiness, it’s your cleavage. And I remember when the lady that was helping me goes like, "You had surgery. Are you okay?" and I’m like, it was a sense of like: I had been found out. "No, no, no, no, no, I don’t want people to know." You know, and that took me back to: okay, so what are you going to do right now? It was also really early on in the process, so like I still don’t know if I need radiation, if I’m going to need chemo. So, because they did the surgery first to take it and then figure out what else did they find. I was lucky I didn’t need anything extra, just the surgery and the tamoxifen for the next ten years, and I’m good. But yeah, that—that moment was like: so now what? So some days I like: are they looking at me like when I go without the prosthesis, I’m like: are they looking at me? And then like: okay, well if they look, they look. Six months ago I’d probably: "No, no, nobody’s looking, let me put more stuff on top." But yeah, it’s—it’s almost like a wave at times. Even if you’re comfortable, sometimes it’s like: they must know. Like they truly know. 

Mark Laurie: You feel so aware of it, yeah. I can see that now. Um, do you find that you’re trying to—people tend to fall like three categories I’ve noticed. There are some people who are just like bold up front: "I lost my breasts to cancer, I don’t have breasts in there," and they’re almost defiant about, you know, "my new beauty standard." Uh, other women want to be very quiet, just the world does not know, it’s an intimate thing. Other people haven’t really thought one way or the other, if it comes up, it comes up. How do you fit on—did you go through a phase of "it’s not the world’s business?" 

Elizabeth Gil: Yes. For the longest time it—it was like: I don’t want anybody to know because I don’t want cancer to be my only identity. I don’t want things to change. And again, I had the privilege that only needing the surgery and coming out with very minimal side effects. I didn’t have the pain, I didn’t have the swelling, I didn’t have any of the infections, that helped me to just like: this can go just like when I broke my arm, when I had my leg surgery. It’s—it’s something happened and I keep going. Um, but yeah, for a very long time it’s like: I don’t want anyone to know. And it didn’t happen. You know, and of course I look down like: it did happen! But it was like: "No, no, nobody needs to know." And then probably over the past six months it has been like, I’m not going to be announcing it, but if—if I ever find somebody who is walking that path, I probably will volunteer like: "Do you want to talk? Do you need a safe space to talk?" and do that. Same as the nurse from my doctor: she was an incredible support at that point, like she came and: "This is what happened to me, and this is how I reacted, this is what I did," and she showed me one of the scars and like: "Okay, so—so we can survive." That moment was so powerful that like: okay, it—it brings hope. So, I think at this point it’s more of: can I bring hope to somebody else if they need it? 

Mark Laurie: Now we did a photo session for you. We did one way back when you had all your parts with you. And then we did the second one. Um, that—it was a nude session, so it’s very, very revealing out there. How’d you feel about that process when you’re suddenly really exposed and really almost making a—making a flag in the sand: "Here’s my body?" 

Elizabeth Gil: It was very empowering to be honest. It was like—it was part of that process of like: I don’t need to hide because it’s not the only identity. And most people don’t know that I went through it. Most people is like, "Oh, so you start, you cut your hair all of a sudden?" like, "Yeah, I did." "You did," you know, all these things and it was like yeah, without having to make it as my identity. So when I came into the second photo session it was like: I just want to reaffirm that this is me and I own everything from the tip of my toes to the last hair on my head. And I’m powerful and I am so many other things. And I’m sexy and I’m almost like a goddess at times and the warrior princess, which again, I don’t like the idea of thinking about warriors because again, what happened to those women that they couldn’t survive? You know, I don’t ever want anyone to feel like, well they didn’t battle hard enough. No, no, they probably battled hard enough. Just the lottery, that was their number. So, but yeah, it was more of like: I just want to reclaim every little inch of me on this. 

Mark Laurie: That makes—that makes good sense. I can appreciate that. It was a—it was a privilege to photograph you; it was exciting to see your energy. Um, what—it’s a complex experience, and so you’re not the only one going through it though, because you’ve—you’re taking the brunt of it and you’re the epicenter of it. Um, how did you navigate with your family and friends? 

Elizabeth Gil: It was—it was a learning experience again because I’m accustomed to being the one—not that anybody asked me, but I did it on my own, I will admit this. I’m a little bit of a control freak, so I like: I’ll do everything, don’t you worry, I got it. And then all of a sudden I saw my kids stepping up. Like I mentioned in the other cast, my son start taking the notes of all the level fluids and changing the bandages and anything that needed to be done, because he said: "This is how I learn, this is how it’s going to prepare me." And then my daughter just took care of herself and it’s like: they have grown. And it was—my husband, the most—one of those core memories was coming from the hospital and I need to have a shower, and he came into the bath and just wash my hair, and that sense of: I’m being loved every single inch of me and he’s not running away, he’s not screaming, he’s just here. That was like—that was the life raft in—in that moment of like: I’m not sure yet how I’m feeling, you know, cause I could see it’s flat but I have all the little bandages and like: I’m okay. And then I had my mother-in-law, like I will be eternally grateful for her because her mom had breast cancer. And she remembered being the third of eight or nine, I think. She remembered her mom coming home from the surgery and doing—starting to lift little cans to work on the muscles to recover the strength. Which is what my doctor had said, she’s like: "I can fix the scars if we need to do anything like that, but I can’t fix your arm." Which with my mom it happened; they told her, "Don’t lift your arm more than this," like shoulder length, and then she hasn’t been able to get full movement. And I’m like, "No, no, I’m an archer, I need that arm working here." So I came home and my mother-in-law had the tiny pesto tomato paste can to the big two-kilo can here, all across in my country, she’s like: "Start. Pick. Which one?" And because she had seen her mom doing that. 

Mark Laurie: That was—that was your mother-in-law.

Elizabeth Gil: That was my mother-in-law, yeah. "Just start. Pick. Which one?" And because she had seen her mom doing that. And that was her—one of her biggest things is like: "You need to start moving, they give you exercises, you start right now." You know, so it was—and the doctor had said like after I came from surgery, it was a day surgery, so like: "As soon as you get home, start doing the walking up the wall and to try to see what you can do." And yeah, like I said, she had all the cans ready to go and they were on my counter for months as I got stronger and I started to recover. 

Mark Laurie: Did you find it changed relationships with people? Were all the relationships changed good, some were bad? How’d that all how’d that all shift?

Elizabeth Gil: It was good with overall with most people. They were—one, very loving, very encouraging, "It’s going to be okay and we’re going to help you and whatever you need." I had a meal train coming to my house with food which was like: oh my god, thank you! You know, and then the biggest challenge was I said to my husband like: I don’t want again to make this my only identity. I need to feel that I’m still the archer, the silversmith, the potty-mouth wife that you get some days, you know, like all of this I need to feel that I am me. So I don’t want for the rest of the world necessarily to know about it. I don’t want the conversation to be only about this; I need to talk about other things. So, a group through the Rev, a group of my closer friends knew because they were organizing things. But then when those first six months went by it was like: okay, whoever doesn’t know right now, I don’t want to retell the story. Not because I don’t love them, not because I don’t trust them; it’s just it’s not part of what they need to know right now. 

Mark Laurie: It doesn’t change who you are.

Elizabeth Gil: Exactly. I’m coping. And that was—sometimes it has been like: did—does this person know or not know when I have met somebody that I haven’t seen in a long time. I’m like: okay, just whatever it is, we’ll roll with it. If it comes up, it comes up. If it doesn’t, it’s not part of it. Yeah. So but yeah, it’s—that’s I think how it changed is that sometimes I have to do the mental exercise like: did I tell them, or don’t—do they know, because if they don’t, I don’t want to necessarily go into it. 

Mark Laurie: My mom went through that. She passed away from kidney cancer. And we’d go out on whenever I walked with her everyone each one of our siblings had different roles, I guess it turned out. And mine was just connect with the real world; we never talked about her cancer at all. And she hated that as well; she was a very independent woman and this whole image that she was a survivor or that she was a protected, a lesser person, you know, a just—the whole thing she didn’t care for it. She was like you; she just—it didn’t change her personality. It’s kind of who you continued on to be. Um, do you find it changed—like after you’ve come through the recovery thing, did it change your life that much in the end? 

Elizabeth Gil: It—it made me more present aware. You know, and it was part of why I did the Master’s. A large part of doing the Master’s is I had a bad boss that I like: this is not working right now, so I need to get out. But there was also that sense of like: I don’t want to put it off another two years or three years because I don’t know if I actually have those next years. It’s now. You know, and it has changed too in terms of trying to be a little more forgiving towards myself. Like—because the body keeps the score, as funny as that might sound. Like, there is a part of me that thinks that cancer precisely on the breast is because I had been carrying a lot of suffering and sadness. And the body said: "Okay, lady, enough! I—I can’t do it." And then I had a second bout of cancer that was neuroendocrine, pancreatic neuroendocrine. And again, it’s like: the body couldn’t keep cleaning everything. Or that’s the way I’m choosing to see it just to feel a little more—there is a little bit I can do if I’m more cognizant. It’s not going to protect me that I will never, ever have it, but maybe—maybe I don’t have to carry that extra weight. And the body doesn’t have to continue putting ledgers on it like: let it go. 

Mark Laurie: That makes sense. So the takeaway is: treat your body very well, it’s your only temple. 

Elizabeth Gil: Exactly. Yes. It’s important because I think you can—you can do everything right with your body and still get cancer, get something else, get hit by a truck for that matter. But you do give your body the better chance to live long and live well. So there’s—there’s that aspect of it. And I guess you feel your mortality a bit closer, a reminder that you’re not invincible and that there is a—it—we do have short lives. 

Elizabeth Gil: Yes. And at the same time, one of the things that came to my mind in that moment of realizing the mortality was: technically we really don’t know how much time we have. So might as well—this make me a little more like: okay, do it now instead of tomorrow. Just don’t procrastinate. But it was that like truly don’t—don’t get stuck on like: well, the cancer took ten years out of me. Do I actually know I had those ten years or not? So it’s the right now. 

Mark Laurie: So you exist very much more in the moment. And I’m—I’m guessing that your conversations you probably don’t have much tolerance for fluff conversations. 

Elizabeth Gil: It—it will depend on who am I talking to. Does this person need to have a fluff conversation? I’ll have it for like five, ten minutes and then like: okay, we need to do something else. Yeah, but yeah, no, I—I want more real. And that doesn’t mean it has to be all the time the heaviest stuff; it also—I want to hear what is making you happy, what— 

Mark Laurie: Oh yeah, like—yeah, when I think of—of non-fluff conversations, fluff conversations are mindless things about the weather, did you catch that TV show, my gosh what’s happening in X part of the world is bad, stuff you just happens that’s in the ether kind of thing. Um, when I think interesting conversation is being a part of the joy in your life, the sadness in your life, um, goals, uh, you know, share your burden, share my burden, those kind of things, philosophical ones that maybe we can change the world by talking, exploring this particular problem or issue kind of thing. 

Elizabeth Gil: Yeah. No, and like I like how you said: bringing both the joy and the—the sorrow, because we tend, I think—I don’t know if it’s because of the news and everything else around, all that we see is that negative and keep discounting the positive. Like: no, bring that. That’s—that’s important. That’s—when I work with couples I—I tell them like: you know, during your happy moments, that brings stability to your relationship. When you are in these moments of fight, it’s a moment of growth. You need both to actually succeed to go. 

Mark Laurie: Yeah, it’s—under a little saying you don’t—you can’t grow in a comfort zone. 

Elizabeth Gil: No. You know, just the same thing with plants: they need to have some—the—the best characters are shaped to some degree of conflict, of—of challenge. I mean, conflict doesn’t have to have conflict, but a challenge. Where you’re going: "Okay, I’m going to rise to this challenge," as opposed to never have to rise to it before and you don’t really know what your mettle is. Like: I think that’s what shapes you in a strong fashion. 

Mark Laurie: Exactly. Thank you so much for your time today and for sharing in such a deeply personal experience. 

Elizabeth Gil: Thank you for having me. 

Mark Laurie: And again, if you look in her bio you’ll see a bit more about her, about her journey, and any way you want to contact her. So thanks a lot for that. We’ll see you in the next one. 

Announcer: This has been Fascinating Women with Mark Laurie. Join us on our website and subscribe at fascinatingwomen.ca. Fascinating Women has been sponsored by Inner Spirit Photography of Calgary, Alberta, and is produced in Calgary by Lee Ellis and My Office Media.